GM Rosette Rivets - Impala Tech
Tag Team De-coding tags & numbers

 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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GM Rosette Rivets

Does anyone know where to get authentic Rivets to fasten the VIN back on the car after restoration.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 07:00 PM
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e-Bay sells them every now and then even though it is illegal to have them.

Big Dave
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 07:46 AM
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There have been volumes written over at the Camaro site about removing VIN tags for restoration. Not much of a problem on the big cars though.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 03:38 PM
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It is a federal crime to "tamper" with a VIN tag. Tampering is undefined in the statute but the courts have determined it to mean altering (changing any information on the tag), removing (using the rosette rivets which possession of is considered prima fascia evidence of VIN tampering), or swapping a VIN tag from one car to another car.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 09:13 AM
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
It is a federal crime to "tamper" with a VIN tag. Tampering is undefined in the statute but the courts have determined it to mean altering (changing any information on the tag), removing (using the rosette rivets which possession of is considered prima fascia evidence of VIN tampering), or swapping a VIN tag from one car to another car.

Big Dave
I would beg to differ. I think that you are protecting valuable Information that would be relevant to the matter. If you sand blasted the numbers and they become unreadable, I would think that would be tampering or disfiguring. There are other numbers stamped into various spots in the body, so if they match i dont see a problem. Now if you were to change all the numbers on the car you might have a problem unless you have Titles for both of the titled cars. I would like to know because I did see something like this go on with a 69 Camaro. They cut out all the numbers out of a car and welded them into the other car
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 09:59 AM
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In Ohio, If the VIN tag has been tampered with the State Patrol will either issue you a new tag or confiscate your vehicle. Depends on the story and proof. And they don't buy the restoration excuse.
Your state my be different.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 11:06 AM
 
 
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Im sure Laws from state to state vary. I would see changing a Vin would be a problem or pop riviting them on with a Home Depot rivits would raise a flag. I restored a 78 Ford F250 for my Father in law in this great state of Ct and change everything except for the cab. When I brought it thru Inspection they actually knew where to scrape the frame for the vin #. So There is more numbers on the car that meets the eye and the Inspectors have been trained for this. I think the Camaro was a 69 and it was on Evil bay. I have a 30 Model A coupe and the engine number is the frame number but engines are often changed or Ford didnt even punch the number into the frame at all. Record keeping was very poor back then, so i punched the number where it had to go and got it vin varified. This subject is a Grey area. What does a body shop do to a newer car that has been hit and fixed? Do they bring it to have it Inspected?...I dont know maybe the title gets stamped differently? back in the Model A days they said "your all set" and you just drive away. You actually kept the keys in cars. Times have changed........

Last edited by Modchevelle; 03-11-2009 at 11:07 AM. Reason: spell
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modchevelle View Post
Im sure Laws from state to state vary. I would see changing a Vin would be a problem or pop riviting them on with a Home Depot rivits would raise a flag. I restored a 78 Ford F250 for my Father in law in this great state of Ct and change everything except for the cab. When I brought it thru Inspection they actually knew where to scrape the frame for the vin #. So There is more numbers on the car that meets the eye and the Inspectors have been trained for this. I think the Camaro was a 69 and it was on Evil bay. I have a 30 Model A coupe and the engine number is the frame number but engines are often changed or Ford didnt even punch the number into the frame at all. Record keeping was very poor back then, so i punched the number where it had to go and got it vin varified. This subject is a Grey area. What does a body shop do to a newer car that has been hit and fixed? Do they bring it to have it Inspected?...I dont know maybe the title gets stamped differently? back in the Model A days they said "your all set" and you just drive away. You actually kept the keys in cars. Times have changed........
Licensing and titles are under state control. It is still a federal felony to tamper with a VIN. What the state accepts has no bearing on what the feds do, or don't do (as I have not heard of the FBI getting involved with auto theft rings and chop shops unless they cross state lines).

In Florida if you weld on more than 25% of another car it is considered a total loss (same for bolting on a new front clip) and the state issues a new VIN to the vehicle with a new title that states the vehicle was remanufactured. You must surrender any and all titles to the vehicles that went into "restoring" the damaged car you want to drive on the road at the time you apply for a remanufactured title.

If you are sand blasting the car tape over the VIN with electrical tape. A couple of layers of rubber will survive any sand blasting.

Big Dave
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