problem with my new car (oh dear) - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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problem with my new car (oh dear)

hi guys

just bought a 1965 impala 2 door, drove 200 mile np and 25 miles from home stopped to get some petrol. Filled up and turned the key, nothing! turned to off and the engine started! and the starter motor just kept turning, luckly there was a kill switch under the hood so i could stop it all. now without a key even in the car i put the kill switch back in and the starter starts sparking and smoke comes out of the filter.

any help would be appreciated i'm a complete mechanical noob got the car to help with that, and i can;t seem to find any tachnical manuals for it either any hel there would be grate

thanks

steve
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 12:29 PM
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disconnect the battery and then take a look at the wiring on the ignition switch. make sure there's no frayed, burnt etc wires... sounds like the switch is bad to me.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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cheers i'll give that a look when is stops raining
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 03:50 PM
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It does sound a bit like a wiring issue. On the starter, there are 2 small wires, and also the larger power cable to the battery. I wonder if the 2 smaller wires are crossed?
Depending upon how that kill switch is wired,...and lord knows why it's even there, ...maybe the 2 small wires are crossed on it?

The installation of that kill switch seems a bit sketchy to me. Ya gotta wonder why someone put it there.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 07:14 AM
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I'm betting that the starter relay (on top of the starter) is bad It cranked and ran, so I doubt is it wired wrong.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 09:48 AM
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Solenoid has to be energized to engage starter so that is electrical. The kill switch inside the car instead of on the rear of the vehicle (per NHRA regulations) tells me the previous owner had electrical issues and was too lazy to fix them (probably because they were intermittent).

Big Dave
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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ok here what happened, i took a look at the wires fom the starter motor to the inigtion switch and the all seemed fine. there was one join in the middle so i renewed that incase it was faulty.

it took me over and hour to get the ignition switch off the dash, by the looks of it the ignition switch had been off quite a lot the screw bit on the front was stcratched all to hell. evenually got it off and there was no thread in it at all.

once i got it off the mechinism in the ingnition switch seemed to be working fine, unlike when it went all wrong. after recharging the battery for a few hours it fired up all fine! went for a 10 min drive got back turned it of and the battery was so flat again it wouldn;t turn over at all

i'm thinking it's a faulty ignition switch becuase the mechinism seems to be intermittant or at least it was, what do you reckon??
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-06-2009, 09:12 PM
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Probably a good idea to replace the ignition switch. If you have a bunch of spliced wires I think it is time to consider Painles or any of the other aftermarket wire loom makers for a replacement wire harness as yours might cause more than starting problems (it could burn the car down and anything it is parked next to or inside of).

Big Dave
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2009, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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thanks Big Dave will add that to the shopping list. it seems that the starter is now dead too, it;s getting power ok but doing nothing. i got the battery tested and that seems fine. such a shame 1 day of owning the car and need to get new switch and starter motor refurbed . ah well welcome to classic car ownership i guess
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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ok so i got round to measuring the voltages, it seemed to me the switch was working ok accesories and start position was 12v, the starter motor connection measured 5v when trying to start.

so i put the volt meter on the cable splice to the starter (under the hood) and the earth connection on the battery and this is what i got

kill switch out - lead from ignition to starter - 12v (i'm guess the meter makes the circuit complete from the starter to the battery)
kill switch in - lead from ignition to starter - 0v
kill switch in - lead from inginton to starter 6v when trying to start, no sound

does that sound ok, meaning the starter is broken or still something else

thanks for your help
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 02:09 PM
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I'm betting it is the ignition switch. You can jump the big terminal to the small rear terminal. If the starter is good it will spin but not start the car as the ignition should be off.

Big Dave
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-10-2009, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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hello again

so i jumped the 2 terminals and the starter span, so iv'e been looking for and ignition switch but i seems the '65 ones have been discontined. i found this one

http://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/en/...witch-details/

over here, will that do untill i can find a proper one?

thanks again

steve
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 12:20 PM
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other than an obsolete parts distributor, e bay etc or a swap meet you'll need to do some searching for that '65 ignition switch. it's the same switch that fits chevyII's also. a one year item that fits numerous GM cars (Buick Chevy & Olds)

the AC/Delco part number is D1417B

http://www.acdelco.com/html/catalog/index_auto.htm


  • BUICK (5) 1965-1965
    • SKYLARK(3) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V6-225ci 3.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-300ci 4.9L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-401ci 6.6L CARB
    • SPECIAL(2) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V6-225ci 3.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-300ci 4.9L 2 BBL
  • CHEVROLET (46) 1965-1965
    • BELAIR(6) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L6-230ci 3.8L 1 BBL
      • 1965 V8-283ci 4.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L 4 BBL
      • 1965 V8-396ci 6.5L 4 BBL
      • 1965 V8-409ci 6.7L 4 BBL
      • 1965 L6-250ci 4.1L Carb
    • BISCAYNE(6) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L6-250ci 4.1L Carb
      • 1965 L6-230ci 3.8L 1 BBL
      • 1965 V8-283ci 4.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L 4 BBL
      • 1965 V8-396ci 6.5L 4 BBL
      • 1965 V8-409ci 6.7L 4 BBL
    • CHEVELLE(5) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L6-194ci 3.2L 1 BBL
      • 1965 L6-230ci 3.8L 1 BBL
      • 1965 V8-283ci 4.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L 4 BBL
      • 1965 V8-396ci 6.5L 4 BBL
    • CHEVY II(2) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L4-153ci 2.5L CARB
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L CARB
    • CHEVY II NOVA(3) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L6-194ci 3.2L 1 BBL
      • 1965 L6-230ci 3.8L 1 BBL
      • 1965 V8-283ci 4.7L 2 BBL
    • CORVAIR(2) 1965-1965
      • 1965 H6-164ci 2.7L 1 BBL Turbo
      • 1965 H6-164ci 2.7L 2x1 BBL
    • CORVETTE(3) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L 4 BBL
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L F/I
      • 1965 V8-396ci 6.5L 4 BBL
    • EL CAMINO(4) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L6-194ci 3.2L 1 BBL
      • 1965 L6-230ci 3.8L 1 BBL
      • 1965 V8-283ci 4.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L 4 BBL
    • IMPALA(6) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L6-230ci 3.8L 1 BBL
      • 1965 V8-283ci 4.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L 4 BBL
      • 1965 V8-396ci 6.5L 4 BBL
      • 1965 V8-409ci 6.7L 4 BBL
      • 1965 L6-250ci 4.1L Carb
    • MALIBU(4) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L6-194ci 3.2L 1 BBL
      • 1965 L6-230ci 3.8L 1 BBL
      • 1965 V8-283ci 4.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L 4 BBL
    • NOVA(5) 1965-1965
      • 1965 L4-153ci 2.5L 1 BBL
      • 1965 L6-194ci 3.2L 1 BBL
      • 1965 L6-230ci 3.8L 1 BBL
      • 1965 V8-283ci 4.7L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-327ci 5.4L 4 BBL
  • OLDSMOBILE (15) 1965-1965
    • 442(1) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-400ci 6.6L 4 BBL
    • CUTLASS(2) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-330ci 5.4L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-400ci 6.6L CARB
    • DYNAMIC(1) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-425ci 7.0L Carb
    • EIGHTY-EIGHT(1) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-425ci 7.0L 2 BBL
    • F-85(3) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V6-225ci 3.7L CARB
      • 1965 V8-330ci 5.4L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V8-400ci 6.6L CARB
    • JETSTAR(3) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-425ci 7.0L Carb
      • 1965 V8-425ci 7.0L Carb
      • 1965 V8-330ci 5.4L 2 BBL
    • NINETY-EIGHT(1) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-425ci 7.0L 4 BBL
    • STARFIRE(1) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-425ci 7.0L 4 BBL


    • VISTA CRUISER(2) 1965-1965
      • 1965 V8-330ci 5.4L 2 BBL
      • 1965 V6-225ci 3.7L CARB
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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nice one thanks.

also i notice theres 5 conectors on the back of that switch just like mine but i have only 4 of them with wires, i beleive the ground wire is missing, is that usual? could that be my problem perhaps?

thanks again

steve
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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things are never easy for me lol
i found a tempary ignition switch and wired it up they were labled differently i connected as follows

old switch : new switch
Bat : feed in
IGN : ignition
Sol : starter
Acc : accessory

i assume thats correct

turned the key and the starter tuned over YES!! took a few goes and the engine started YES!! however the noise i heard sounded like the starter was still going NOOOOO , tunred it off and it stopped (at least that works unlike the old switch)

i'm left wondering what can be wrong now? have i wired wrong, is the starter broke or just a wire need replacing?

any help you can give will be much appriciated, thanks guys

steve
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 12:43 PM
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sounds like you've got the ignition wired up right to me. good job!

you had that last symptom previously as well....that sound like the starter gear is still engaged and whining. (at least I think you said that)

seems like a bad starter relay or a binding starter gear when it meshes with the flywheel. They do make shims for the starter mount for that.
Seems like a crapshoot either way. Sorry I'm not of more help. :shrug:
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the info BA
got a friend of mine to come round and have a look and he rekons it's something like binding starter gear too. now i got to wait till sunday before i get the time to take it off and have a look, fingers crossed for fine weather.

i'll keep you posted see how it turns out

thanks

steve
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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hello once again guys

had the starter motor refurbed and oh dear was it busted big time, things had started to melt and crack inside, i think they replaced everything except the case. got it fitted in this morning all sounded well till is started up and i got the grinding noice i had before, which i had assumed was the starter motor not disengaging.

it only seems to have started this with the new switch, the 2 times it did start with the old switch it never made this noise. is there any real difference between the ignition switch i got (http://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/en/...tch~dashboard/) and the original, i know there different but should that make this sort of problem?

and i was wondering if i removed the starter from the switch and wired up a start button would that sort it, i know it will look horrible but i just need to get it started to i can take it to be welded and mot'd.

thanks for the help

steve
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