Crate Motor Recommendation - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Crate Motor Recommendation

Good Afternoon, I have a 1966 with its original motor, researching how cost effective it would be to rebuild or pursue a crate turn key motor. Additionally I have considered a new motor with fuel injection. Who has recently purchased a crate motor. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 09:43 PM
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I had a 496 stroker crate motor delivered on Friday. Doing a Holley EFI on it as well. I went this route instead of rebuilding the 396 it had for a few reasons, one of which being I discovered it was not the original engine. Will answer any questions I can. Shoot.

1968 Impala SS
496 Stroker
T56 Conversion
3.73 Posi-Trac
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 11:35 PM
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You can not rebuild a stock SBC engine for the price of a crate engine from GMPP that offers a factory GM warranty one year from date of purchase. All brand new parts assembled and fired on LP just like a factory engine (if they still built 350 small blocks).

I would steer clear of EFI. It triples the price of a carb and offers no advantage. Factory uses EFI for one reason and one reason only. They can program their EFI to pass the emission test and a carb can't do that. Unless your car has EFI now it is exempt from emission testing, even in Calf.

No new fuel tank to buy, no new fuel pump to buy, no programming the system, or wiring it up; just bolt it on an fire it up. Carb won't pass emission test at idle, but it makes more power at wide open throttle than EFI.

Big Dave
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 08:29 AM
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Dave,

I may be biased here since I make fuel injectors, but how are you arriving at your WOT conclusion? Fuel injectors have a predictable, linear response across the entire power band and do not starve the engine for air, which is the only other component you need.

If we are talking about throttle body injection without timing control, then yes I'd be inclined to agree but multi-port FI with timing control and O2 sensor closed loop control is a solid platform for any engine with respect to drivability.

More complicated, yes, but not overly so.

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Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
You can not rebuild a stock SBC engine for the price of a crate engine from GMPP that offers a factory GM warranty one year from date of purchase. All brand new parts assembled and fired on LP just like a factory engine (if they still built 350 small blocks).

I would steer clear of EFI. It triples the price of a carb and offers no advantage. Factory uses EFI for one reason and one reason only. They can program their EFI to pass the emission test and a carb can't do that. Unless your car has EFI now it is exempt from emission testing, even in Calf.

No new fuel tank to buy, no new fuel pump to buy, no programming the system, or wiring it up; just bolt it on an fire it up. Carb won't pass emission test at idle, but it makes more power at wide open throttle than EFI.

Big Dave
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1969 Imapala convertible build thread here:
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ghlight=impala
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 09:46 AM
BA.
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I bought a BluePrint brand 383 with Alum heads, roller cam and 1-piece main seal and I've been very happy with it. The sparkplugs they come with were waay too cold but other than that, it's been great and comes with a dyno sheet. (heavy trust factor there)
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HOW A NOVICE REBUILDS A 66 IMPALA CONVERTIBLE:
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=1432
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justjohn View Post
Dave,

I may be biased here since I make fuel injectors, but how are you arriving at your WOT conclusion? Fuel injectors have a predictable, linear response across the entire power band and do not starve the engine for air, which is the only other component you need.

If we are talking about throttle body injection without timing control, then yes I'd be inclined to agree but multi-port FI with timing control and O2 sensor closed loop control is a solid platform for any engine with respect to drivability.

More complicated, yes, but not overly so.
Decades of experience racing against all comers. Pro Stock was forced to switch to EFI (formerly running with twin Dominators for 2100 to 2900 cfm on an independent runner manifold) because Chevrolet threatened to pull it's sponsorship if they didn't. Took them three years of testing and tuning to get back to the same power level as before (3 hp per cube out of a normally aspirated BBC).

I am a mechanical engineer that has been self taught in automotive engineering (since there are only three schools of automotive engineering in the US). Read texts on carburetion, exhaust flow suspension: all out of date now, I'm sure, but I understand the basics. This includes EFI as I have not dismissed it out of hand but studied it's Pros and Cons.

If I where to build a new car with LS power I would retain EFI only modifying it for a higher duty cycle as I would be punching the motor out to maximum displacement with freer flowing aftermarket heads (I can't help myself as I am as addicted to power as any B-film 1950 SciFi villain). I would not be retaining the factory computer, or displacement on demand, or variable valve timing (due to it's physical limitations not because it isn't a good idea). I await an age of push rod independence with direct injection and a slide valve block with a flat head.

Big Dave
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Where did you buy? Local or shipped in?
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lndbarron View Post
Where did you buy? Local or shipped in?
I ordered mine from Tristar out of Wisconsin. They have a good warranty and customer service, good reviews online, and most importantly an engine with all the features I was looking for. It was $300 for shipping, and the carrier delivered straight to my door.

1968 Impala SS
496 Stroker
T56 Conversion
3.73 Posi-Trac
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 09:59 AM
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The difference between the GMPP service part motor and the warranty offered by the rest of the engine builders (including me at one time) is that their warranty is an insurance policy. The builder buys the policy and if it breaks you fix yourself out of pocket and file a claim for reimbursement. With GMPP you tow it to a any dealership (can be Buick or Caddy as well as Chevy) and their techs treat it just like a factory warranty. The motor will be repaired or replaced at no cost to you with a new engine if need be in a timely manner.

They're selling these made in Mexico motors cheaper than I could buy the parts to rebuild one using a used block. This isn't to mention the money I would spend on machine work on the used block. Add to that the price I paid the insurance company to buy a warranty and you see why I was put out of business. I never liked building stock motors anyway though it paid the bills. I much preferred building custom race car engines.

Big Dave
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 01:27 PM
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During the last 12 months I have bought 2 crate engines, SBC 383 and BBC 468.

383 came from Blueprint engines and 468 came from vortecpro454.com, extremely happy with both, no issues whatsoever. 383 already has 8k miles in my brothers truck, 468 about 2k miles.

GMPP has a warranty, but be ready to use it cause their quality of workmanship is far from what it used to be. good luck with the whole "taking it to the dealership".

My cousin had a minor issue with oil pump on his Blueprint 350, they went above and beyond to make sure that the problem is taken care of.

Stay away from ATK crate engines, nothing but trouble and they do not stand behind their product. I swear I could put the engine together with my eyes closed and it would still be better than what we received from ATK couple of years ago.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 07:12 AM
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I just recenly bought an ATK engine from Jegs. It had a bad oil pump in it. I had to pull it back out. I had to buy a new oil pump, pan gasket, and break in oil from jegs, and they are sending me a check for the parts. I have the new engine back in the car, Broke in the cam, and now driving it, and it's running great. for the price it can't be beat. Just prime the engine before you put it in. I think you will be ok.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 12:35 PM
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I would have to agree with 67 SS; any thing that won't even start has to be poorly assembled out of seconds and rejects. I will wager your oil pump is a Pakistani counterfeit of a Melling oil pump.

Look at the made in part of your replacement such as this Melling OEM replacement part.

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

It should say (thanks to NAFTA) hecho en Mexico, not China or India or Malaysia. Machining the parts takes some skill since they are too low a price point to CNC from billet. It is a precision part and easy to screw up if made by rice farmers, or buffalo herders. If it doesn't list the origin as Mexico, USA or Canada you don't want it in your engine. Yes the raw forgings for every ones pistons rods and cranks are cast in China but they are machined in Mexico or the US by trained machinists willing to do the same work as American union workers only for a third of the labor costs.

Big Dave
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 11:43 AM
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The replacement oil pump they gave me was a Melling M55. I'm new to all of different things with cars. I am a retired machinist/ tool maker. The classic car thing is just a hobby. I can do most any mechanical work, but don't know the history of where everything should be made. My 67 is running great. If I ever buy a crate motor again, I will make sure the oil pump works before installing it in the car. I took an old distributor and machined the gear teeth off to use in the future.
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