Lucas Classic Car Oil? - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Lucas Classic Car Oil?

I'm about to do an oil change on my stock 327 and was curious if I should switch oils. I've always used Castrol conventional 10W-30. However, while searching I ran into a Lucas Classic Car Oil:https://lucasoil.com/products/hot-ro...w-30-motor-oil

Has anyone used this or recommend it...or not? I understand the additive requirements for classic cars that this oil provides. I'm a little iffy about some of the statements though like "Not intended for passenger car use." I mean Impala's are passenger cars. I'm not sure about the specific driving requirements. I do drive my classic like 1-2 times a week during the spring and summer.

1967 Chevrolet Impala 4 door "post" sedan
327 5.4L V8 - 3-speed TH350
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 12:42 PM
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Looks like an interesting product. I have been using a zinc additive. I went ahead and asked the Lucas customer support chat and asked them.

Me: "I am looking at your "HOT ROD & CLASSIC CAR 10W-30 MOTOR OIL" and it has the rather contradictory statement "is for muscle, showroom, classic and trophy cars without catalytic converters. It can be used in racing applications. Not recommended for passenger car use." . Can you clarify what you mean by "Not recommended for passenger car use" ? Most muscle cars are passenger cars."

Lucas Customer Support: "We just don`t recommend it for vehicles with catalytic converters"



However, it seems Lucas is not well thought of by "oil connoisseurs", at least the type that hang out on forums about oil ;D


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=3024886

.

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My Bloggy Thing: http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2285

Last edited by dcairns; 04-29-2020 at 01:01 PM.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 01:42 PM
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If what you have been using has been working why change? Are you thinking the different oil is going to save cost or something?

I'm more of a fan of, other than engine break in oil, what I start using is what I keep using unless what I am using is causing an issue. A lot of these oils for high mileage cars and such are just marketing strategies in my opinion.
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1963 Impala Convertible (Frame off resto-mod in progress)
1963 Impala 2 door hardtop (Pro Street build in progress)
1963 Impala 4 door hardtop (Parts car)
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Ya that's the thing, muscle, showroom, classic and trophy cars are all technically polar opposite applications. I guess it's saying that it can be used for anything classic. I might give it a shot. I can always switch back to Castrol if I don't like it. Deadwolf speaks the truth though about why switch if it works.

1967 Chevrolet Impala 4 door "post" sedan
327 5.4L V8 - 3-speed TH350
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 03:04 PM
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"Not recommended for cars with catalytic converters" usually means there is an additive that poisons (chemically binds to) either the catalyst or the oxygen sensors. Both are susceptible to metal additives. So if you have converted to fuel injection with O2 feedback, I'd stay away from it.
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1969 Imapala convertible build thread here:
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ghlight=impala
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 03:45 PM
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It's all about the quantity of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (or ZDDP) in your motor oil. EFI cars with catalytic converters can run it just fine with one tiny exception. Federal law authorizes any one who suspects that any brand of motor oil put in their car equipped with catalytic converters has to have the whole system replaced at no expense to the owner if he experiences an Oxygen sensor issue or a cat fails and gives the bill to whomever put the suspect oil in the car. As a shop owner or dealership you have to prove you are innocent of this heinous crime and lawyers are allowed to get a piece of the action if it goes to litigation or arbitration (can you say chum the waters?).

No shop owner will risk it. The big three auto manufacturers asked the oil companies to remove it from all motor oil and most have. But there are some oil brands that are still high in ZDDP: and then there are the additives sold in gas stations and Wally world, among others.

ZDDP is a mixtures of wear additives used in motor oil from the sixties. It prevents metal on metal contact such as with a flat tappet lifter on a cam shaft or your cylinder rings. Don't use it and things wear out fast, in some cases while you watch. Do use it with EFI and a cat and it might, maybe, on a bad day, while going down hill, with a tail wind, on a cloudy day fail. An engine with good ring seal and proper crankcase ventilation shouldn't put those metals in the exhaust, but it could happen if a lot of things went wrong. But we have all seen poorly maintained cars and our legislature passes what ever laws the lobbies pay for so you takes your chances.

Unless I am running a blown engine I have no use for fuel injection (mechanical or electronic as carburetors work just fine) I don't run any cats no mater what year the car is because in Florida no one checks your car. No enforcement of the law means no one obeys it. I can drive a top fuel dragster down the road during day light hours in Florida. No lighting requirements for brakes or turn signals, no noise requirements, no law against running a tank full of explosive rocket fuel.

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Good read Dave. I think I'm probably thinking way to hard about this. I assume you do recommend oil with ZDDP then? Anything specific? Or do you think it'd be best to just keep using what I've been using?

1967 Chevrolet Impala 4 door "post" sedan
327 5.4L V8 - 3-speed TH350
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 07:09 PM
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I have used Brad Penn oil all my life because there was a distributor at the end of the street with a warehouse full of oil products. Back then it was called Kendall-GT "the green oil", but they sold that brand name to Royal Dutch Shell oil company to put on one of their bottles to fool you into thinking you were buying Kendall-GT (but you were actually buying oil from Malaysia in a Kendal can. Another Pennsylvania crude oil that is also distributed from Tampa is Amalie for older vehicles. It is rich in Zinc and Phosphorous (and they sponsor the Gatornationals every year in Gainesville, FL)

http://www.amalie.com/products/files...24x768%204.jpg

Another Oil company that makes a quality product and sponsors drag racing, motor cycle racing, Sports Car road racing and everything but canoe racing is Valvoline.

Though I have never used their oil personally this is another company that sponsors (gives back) to the community and sponsors not only his own team of five drivers but also the "Golden Greek" Chris Karamesines who set a record recently when he came in second overall when he set down a blistering 4-second, 305 mph. Not bad for an 89 year old great grandfather. But he couldn't afford to race at a national event without George Lucas' sponsorship.

If nothing else you can use cheap brand X "dino" oil and add General Motors Motor Oil Suplement:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...iABEgKIFfD_BwE

which is nothing but ZDDP and other detergents to keep your motor alive.

Big Dave
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 08:50 PM
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I did the math, and 1/4 bottle of Lucas engine break in additive with an oil change gets your ZDDP levels to the old numbers. Much less expensive that way.

Two doors, four doors, wagons, and ragtops.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayoldschool View Post
I did the math, and 1/4 bottle of Lucas engine break in additive with an oil change gets your ZDDP levels to the old numbers. Much less expensive that way.
Ya I was looking at that. It would allow me to keep my current oil and just add the additive.

I was also looking at Valvoline VR1 10W-30 conventional racing oil which has 1400 ppm zinc and 1300 ppm phosphorus. Which you could (I guess) use for older applications as well. Each quart is cheaper than a quart of the Lucas classic oil.

How much zinc ppm does your calculation have?

Last edited by Classiccarman; 04-29-2020 at 11:59 PM.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2020, 10:49 AM
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I don't have the numbers. It's been a few years, I bought four bottles of the Lucas when I did it so I'd have it in stock. I did it correctly, though, went on the values in the full bottle, then based on an oil fill, divided it out.



It's really just for peace of mind, though. I don't think that you'll have problems unless you're breaking in a new cam/lifters.

Two doors, four doors, wagons, and ragtops.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2020, 01:43 PM
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I've used VR1 for years in my old BMWs and was just told by a local Racing engine builder that Valvoline VR1 was reformulated recently and does not carry the protection for flat tappts like it used to. They had quite a few cams flatten using it. They moved to VP racing oil, and recommended VP, Brad Penn PennGrade, Driven Racing Oil, and amsoil.

But Oil opinions are like A$$ Holes...
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2020, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickwhite View Post
I've used VR1 for years in my old BMWs and was just told by a local Racing engine builder that Valvoline VR1 was reformulated recently and does not carry the protection for flat tappts like it used to. They had quite a few cams flatten using it. They moved to VP racing oil, and recommended VP, Brad Penn PennGrade, Driven Racing Oil, and amsoil.

But Oil opinions are like A$$ Holes...
Ya you're right. There's going to be a wide range of opinions on motor oil which is causing me to think way to hard about this. I think VR1 "racing oil" is name only and is more intended for performance and classic street use. I'm sure actual racing oil is totally different stuff and wouldn't be street legal.

Nonetheless, I thought this video was interesting:

1967 Chevrolet Impala 4 door "post" sedan
327 5.4L V8 - 3-speed TH350
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 04:53 PM
 
 
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oil leaks on rebuild

Rebuilt 327 three years ago and switched over to lucas 10w-30 last year I now have slight drips of oil this season. Would changing to 10w-40 help with these small leaks?
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjophoto View Post
Rebuilt 327 three years ago and switched over to lucas 10w-30 last year I now have slight drips of oil this season. Would changing to 10w-40 help with these small leaks?
Probably not. The SBC was redesigned in 1984 just to get rid of known oil leaks with the engine. No one likes the changes because they look funny compared to an older engine that leaks.

So do you rebuild a 1985-'04 350 one piece rear main seal with the bolts running down the center of your valve covers to get rid of oil leaks, or do you do what they do at the fire department and put this pan under the source of the oil drips:

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Big Dave
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classiccarman View Post
Ya you're right. I think VR1 "racing oil" is name only and is more intended for performance and classic street use.
That is the problem. Racing oils were never formulated for classic car street use. They were formulated to offer max protection against wear for one race only then to be dumped and the crank case refilled with fresh oil.

Top Fuel cars go through a 55 gallon drum of 90 weight motor oil a day when racing. It goes in 90 weight and comes out 5 weight due to alcohol dilution from blow by. They are running 60 psi of boost and enough fuel to fill the cylinders with liquid fuel which is why things go BO0oom in a hurry when the loose fire (foul both spark plugs) to that cylinder (the cylinder hydrolocks breaking parts).

Racing oil doesn't have the chemicals to keep your engine clean (solvents to remove varnish) nor the anti-oxidants to keep the oil alive for long on the street. Unless you plan on changing your oil every time you take it out for a cruise stay away from racing oil formulations.

Another fine myth (absolutely funny book by Robert Asprin):

https://www.google.com/search?ei=FeG...=1588717337973

Is that diesel truck motor oil is high in zinc. It was up until DEC 2004 when diesel engines over 24 horsepower (to exclude lawn tractors) where required to have a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and a Catalytic converter (cat) just like a car. Guess what? That means no more ZDDP in truck motor oil manufactured since that date, despite what the internet tells you.

Big Dave
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2020, 08:43 PM
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Just happened on the oil conversation.
I have been using Shell Rotella T6 5w40 in my 66 Impala 396 CID. An old friend (who has been a auto Tech for 35+ years) recommended it. As I'm sure we all know the Rotella line is marketed for Diesel engines. The T6 is a Synthetic oil which has approximately 1200 ppm of zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorus at the time of manufacture. I'm not sure what "at the time of manufacture" means and I am not sure what a high PPM would be.
I've only started using it recently when I installed a new Cam & lifters and although I've only put on a couple hundred miles I have not seen any issues.
I just spent a few moments "Surfing" for other opinions and it seems this subject is one of those, that everyone has one. But one thing I did not find, and that is no said it caused an issue with their engine. It seems the biggest comment was "It's a Diesel Oil!".
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2020, 09:31 PM
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RMC: they've dropped the ZDDP in Rotella. Look for some updated numbers. I would be concerned with a new cam in there. I'd add the Lucas I suggested or GM EOS.

Two doors, four doors, wagons, and ragtops.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 12:18 PM
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Hi jayoldschool - love the Id name,

I called Shell\Rotella this morning and his answer was "All Rotella products" have a minimum of 1200 PPM of Zinc. I think that number is sufficient I'm really do not know a minimum number. Also further checking on line I found this statement

Does diesel oil have more zinc?
Diesel oils with API credentials of CI-4, CI-4 Plus, CJ-4 will typically have Zinc levels around 1100 parts per million (ppm). ... Diesel oil is designed with much higher levels of detergency and dispersency to fight the soot contamination.

Found Shell Product data sheet>
https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod...engine-oil.pdf

see below JPG data sheet.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 02:49 PM
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I'll see ya and raise you!

Quote:
The Penn-Grade 1 oils “typical” 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P)
From MEMORY (which is always suspect) Texaco Havoline motor oil was had the highest concentration of DZZP of any brand sold in the sixties to early seventies.

Most engine oils used in muscle cars where classified API CC-SE, with most using straight SAE 30 and only recommending 10W30 for colder climates during the winter.

API Engine Oil Classification

Big Dave
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-08-2020, 09:25 AM
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Coincidentally I just received the Rock Auto May newsletter which has an article "Diesel Oil, Flat Tappets & Gas Engines". Was interesting to me.
https://www.rockauto.com/Newsletter/

Rick
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