Stuck mid swap 700r4 for my Powerglide - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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Stuck mid swap 700r4 for my Powerglide

After finally buying a correct 700r4 I took out the Powerglide and bolted the 700r4 to my 327 today. I have 3 questions I'm stuck on:

1.The 700r4 has 3 wires coming out Blue, Purple, & Pink w/Black Stripe. Can someone tell me which wire goes where? I think only one needs power for the OD to kick in but I don't know which one?

2. Does anyone know how much I need to cut my driveshaft? I saw 3/4" on this site and 2.75" on another? My Powerglide had the 9" tail.

3. Does anyone have any suggestion on how to fabricate the shift linkage. I'm doing this swap on a 'recession' budget and would like to avoid buying a kit. Gas mileage was actually the catalyst for the swap.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

-Erny

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 09:16 AM
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1) My transmission came with one connector, but I think my transmission builder put in an aftermarket connector as the plastic looks new. I did find this info:

http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/700r4lockupcontrol.htm

Based on that, Pin A goes to +12v (on when ignition is on) with a switch on the brake pedal (normally closed, open when brake is applied) and Pin B goes to ground.

2) You need to measure per the instructions from your drive shaft shop. Shortening the driveshaft is not a DIY thing as the drive shaft needs to be re-balanced after you cut it. In my case the drive shaft shop actually sent a guy out to my house to measure it after I had the 700r4 mounted. I guess they don't want to have to put up with miscommunications and ruined driveshafts that were cut too short.

3) I will be working through this myself. I have a aftermarket link that goes directly from the column shift lever at the firewall to the transmission. I find this makes the shift lever buck and vibrate with the engine, so I am going back to the old system, which goes from the shift lever at the firewall to a frame mounted bracket which then transfers the motion horizontally to the transmission. But for now it works. I have bigger problems, like getting the engine working again

My frame has this pin (middle, right) that the old bracket pivioted on.




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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 09:17 AM
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I do not know the colors but to always have the lockup in 2,3 & OD, connect pin A to switched ignition power and pin B to ground.

So at least one of your three wires will hot when the ignition is on and the other two will be ground wires. The hot wire supply has to be run through a brake pedal activated switch (another switch that you will have to provide). You will have to wire in a normally closed switch that opens when you put your foot on the brake pedal and is activated at the same time as the brake light, so you will have to figure out how to install that part such that it doesn't interfere with the brake light but still work with it.

So A & B are for the torque converter lock up and are one continuous circuit. The other Wire D is connected to an engine vacuum switch that is normally opened but closes when vacuum falls below 8-10 inches of vacuum (provided you don't have a long duration cam). This is a passing gear type of thing that will disconnect the lock-up feature when the throttle is wide open.

As to how much to cut or add to your drive shaft that will depend upon the difference in the length between the two transmissions. Normally a 700R4 is longer than a PowerGlide but you mentioned you have a nine inch tail shaft and most information you read is for the standard (or more popular) six inch tail shaft. So if your PowerGlide is longer than the 700R4 with a six inch tail shaft, then you will have to have a custom drive shaft made unless it is within a half inch or so (I would not attempt to add a piece to the existing shaft).

For shift linkage you will have to make that yourself if you do not buy the available kits. It is a matter of looking at the existing PG linkage and figuring out the gear positions and fabricating a new comb with two additional detent positions.

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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I made significant progress on the swap today! Started removing the Powerglide yesterday at noon and was driving the 700r4 by 3pm today.

Driveshaft: My Powerglide was 25" and the 700r4 was 30" so I cut my driveshaft 5" and bought a U-Joint that fit on the original drive shaft yoke and the new 700r4 yoke.

Linkage: I ended up doing my own fabrication and keeping the original linkage. I had to make my own bracket to connect the two. Check out the pix. It looks a little 'back wood' but it shifts smoothly and it was $ friendly. Minor welding involved. However it seems that my column doesn't allow me to shift all the way down to 1st gear. Does anyone know how to fix this?

Wiring: I haven't finished the wiring. I'm having a little trouble installing a switch that uses the brake pedal to un-activate. Is it really necessary? I read all I had to do was connect the A pin to a constant ignition 12v power supply?

I had to install some spacers on my transmission mount because it made my engine drop from the back and I couldn't install my HEI distributor back in (I removed to easily unbolt the top bell-housing bolts).

Here are some pix of my old Powerglide, new 700r4, fabricated bracket & install:

Powerglide:


700r4:


Fabricated 'back wood' bracket:



Install:





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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 10:36 PM
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Your pictures are not showing for me, but I pasted the url into another browser window and was able to see them. Looks like you have a great lift for the car to make it easy to work on. Looks like that shift bracket should work well.

How is the clearance to the parking brake piviot looking?



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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcairns View Post
Your pictures are not showing for me, but I pasted the url into another browser window and was able to see them. Looks like you have a great lift for the car to make it easy to work on. Looks like that shift bracket should work well.

How is the clearance to the parking brake piviot looking?
I just adjusted the picture url's should work now. Here is one that shows the parking brake pivot a little better.

Did you have to connect your single wire to the brake pedal or just constant ignition power?


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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 11:12 PM
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Ignition power. No point in giving it power when the engine is not even running. I don't think it would be doing anything with a constant 12v, but just made more sense to only give it power when the engine would (in theory) be running. I took power from the fuse block and my transmission shop gave me a replacement brake light switch that had the regular switch (normally open, closes when brake is applied) and a second switch (normally closed, open when brake applied). The terminology is kind of backward from the switch labeling, since the brake pedal is "normally" pushing the switch, which makes you think of “normal” state in reverse. But all it has to do is break the circuit when the brakes are applied, which forces the transmission out of lockup.



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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 11:16 PM
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I was actually referring to the brake pivot near the u-joint. On my swap, I had to flatten out the pivot bracket.

Before:




After



Now the parking brake cables rub on the frame holes, but I don't use it a lot. I may adjust the shape of the hook to get it centered again.



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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-18-2010, 02:08 AM Thread Starter
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I think I found an inexpensive solution for my wiring problem. I'm going to try using a standard 5 prong relay that will cut power to the (A) pin on the transmission when the stock brake switch gives the relay power when the bake is pressed. We'll see if this works.

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-18-2010, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcairns View Post
I was actually referring to the brake pivot near the u-joint. On my swap, I had to flatten out the pivot bracket.

Before:




After



Now the parking brake cables rub on the frame holes, but I don't use it a lot. I may adjust the shape of the hook to get it centered again.

I'll take a look and post some pix tomorrow. That might be what causing the buzz I'm hearing inside now.

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-18-2010, 08:58 AM
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This is the sort of switch I used. Mounts in place of the existing brake switch. Wires from the brake light move right over with no modification. I used some heat shrink on the crimp on connectors for my lockup connections, since the connectors I had were not insulated.
http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~partsort




http://www.smokemup.com/tech/700r4.php




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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64 Sport Sedan View Post
I'll take a look and post some pix tomorrow. That might be what causing the buzz I'm hearing inside now.
Spent most of the day at the junk yard didn't get a chance to put the car on the lift to check out the E-Brake pivot. I'll be putting it up tomorrow to install some of my junk yard finds like a Tranny Torque Cover and Kick Down Cable bracket.

In your 700r4 conversion does your column allow you to shift all the way down to 1st or does it stop at 2nd?

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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 09:03 AM
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I don't recall, I didn't get to test it much before the carburetor started acting up. I am not too concerned about it, I never have needed to do that on my 2003 truck, so I doubt I will ever need it on my Impala. In fact I doubt I will ever need to use the downshift on the Impala, unless I take a trip to the mountains.



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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 10:50 AM
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In reading the post, I don't see any reference to the throttle valve cable or adjustment. You need to be SURE you have the correct geometry on the carb linkage and the cable set properly or you'll burn out your new transmission in less than 10 miles. There are tons of articles on the net about setting this and multiple vendors for the linkage adapter. The proper travel is set with the engine OFF so if its not running yet, that's OK. Just DO NOT try to change shift points by 'adjusting' this cable, that's NOT what its for.

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbradley View Post
In reading the post, I don't see any reference to the throttle valve cable or adjustment. You need to be SURE you have the correct geometry on the carb linkage and the cable set properly or you'll burn out your new transmission in less than 10 miles. There are tons of articles on the net about setting this and multiple vendors for the linkage adapter. The proper travel is set with the engine OFF so if its not running yet, that's OK. Just DO NOT try to change shift points by 'adjusting' this cable, that's NOT what its for.
I picked up a couple of different TV cable brackets at the yard and ended up modifying one of them to clear my valve covers and bolt on to my Edlebrock manifold. From what I understand I have to place it so there is mild tension on the cable with the car off and the adjuster fully collapsed. Then I just floor the gas pedal and the TV cable adjusts itself to the right length. Is this accurate or pretty far from what needs to happen?

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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 12:55 PM
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Read these websites, they expain the TV adjustment rather well.

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Inst...ble_adjust.htm

http://www.tvmadeez.com/

I have seen some others that say to set it up for a non-linear pull of the cable, but my transmission guy said to start with a linear pull. By having the mid point be perpendicular to the cable, you get the most linear movment. If you were to move that mid point forward or backward, and retension the cable, you can affect the amount of pull vs throttle setting. With themid point closer to the closed throttle position gives less pull at lower throttle positions more at the full throttle end. Likewise setting the midpoint closer to the full throttle end gives more pull on the low throttle end and less pull on the full throttle end. Doing it wrong could be bad for the transmission.



By the way, you will need a stud that mounts to the carb linkage for the TV cable to clip onto. Not sure where to get those, although I did see there are "corrector" kits out there. But $35 seems a lot for some bolts and a bit of metal Maybe a local tranmission shop would have the stud by itself for a few buck.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-376710/

Also, you may want to look into the TV spring. Since my transmission was built for me, I didn't look into this much, but it may apply to you:


http://www.tvmadeez.com/spring_install/700r4.php



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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the resources! I hooked everything up with my bracket (see pix below) but it's not kicking down to lower gears when I accelerate. I'm going to have to read up on those websites and probably set it up with a bit more tension.

I checked out my E-Brake pivot in the rear (see pix below) and I don't have any rubbing issues since I put some spacers on my transmission mount to give me more clearance in the engine compartment between the block and fire wall to re-install my HEI Distributor. This also raised my drive shaft enough to clear the pivot bracket. BTW I found one of those brake pedal switches at the yard and its working great. Thanks again for all the help.

TV Cable Bracket:


Transmission Mount & Spacers:


E-Brake Pivot Bracket:

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 05:40 PM
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Looks like you might need to work with the geometry of your cable setup. I assume the pictures are with the throttle at idle position. That means you get lots of cable pull right off the bat, but less towards full throttle. I have the same issue to work out as my “handy hole” is almost straight below the throttle shaft.




Also, did you check to see that you are getting full travel from the cable? With it disconnected from the carb (engine off), give it a strong pull, mark the cable where it comes out of the housing, with a grease pencil. Mount it up and check that it gets to the mark with the throttle wide open


You should get a proper stud for the clip of the TV cable. In the long run, I think your current setup will break the green plastic clip, and you won’t know about it and possibly ruin the transmission.

This is what it looks like:



Looks like you found a TV bracket for a car with cruise control. I wish I could tell you where mine came from, but that was 25 years ago. But keep your eye open in the junk yard, it is smaller and a bit cleaner looking. Has a part number on it of “3973000”. It was there from my Powerglide to TH350 swap, so it may be from a TH350 car.





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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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I found a TV cable bracket like yours but it sits too far back on my intake manifold my TV cable doesn't reach the carb. I followed the instructions on that link you sent me and she's shifting and kicking down beautifully! You're right about the TV cable stud, mine sits on it too loosely, thanks for the picture it'll make it a lot easier when hunting at the yard.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 08:07 PM
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Since you got me thinking about it, I worked on my setup for the new carb. Easier to work on while it is all off the car.

I was aiming for minimal modification to the carb linkage, so I only had to drill a small hole, and grind one side of a linkage to clear the stud.



Just a bit of hobby shop aluminum sheet and drill and Dremel work.




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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 08:10 PM
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Oh, one other thought on your spacers on the transmission mount. It is possible that may have set the drive line angle off a bit too much. Try to notice if you get any strange vibrations, as that may be due to the slight imbalace of angles you created with the spacers. Hopefully it is small enough not to matter.



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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2010, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'll check for vibrations once I start driving it around. I just finished detailing the engine compartment and re-polishing the aluminum, won't be driving it during the rain. I found the proper throttle stud at the auto parts store by Holly $ 7.99. Thanks for the picture, helped a lot. Looks like I'm done with the engine and drive line, now onto the interior. Going to start by painting the door jams and then headliner, door panels, floor boards, carpet, stereo, and seats. I already have all the materials and time, just need better weather.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64 Sport Sedan View Post
I'll check for vibrations once I start driving it around. I just finished detailing the engine compartment and re-polishing the aluminum, won't be driving it during the rain. I found the proper throttle stud at the auto parts store by Holly $ 7.99. Thanks for the picture, helped a lot. Looks like I'm done with the engine and drive line, now onto the interior. Going to start by painting the door jams and then headliner, door panels, floor boards, carpet, stereo, and seats. I already have all the materials and time, just need better weather.





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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 01:44 PM
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Erny,

Nice motor.

Do you have any problems with your alternator belt sqeeling when you mash the throttle?
I had that set-up on my small block with headers and the brackets would let the belt vibrate and sqeel. (hows come I cant spell that word ) lol

Brad
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 06:23 PM
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That looks really nice. Black and chrome with some red accents



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