Upgrade my 4 blade fan. - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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Upgrade my 4 blade fan.

Hey guys looking for an alternative fan thats better then my stock 4 blade on my 283.part numbers if u got them. Its for a lot of cruising and traffic. Also would like to run it with a thermo clutch thanks.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 11:03 PM
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SBC moved air with a five blade fan and the BBC used a seven bladed fan. Both were attached with a fluid clutch drive (same one for both applications). Hayes sells new ones or you can find them for more more used on flea-Bay with a Chevy part number stamped in them.

Big Dave
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 11:00 AM
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Hey guys looking for an alternative fan thats better then my stock 4 blade on my 283.part numbers if u got them. Its for a lot of cruising and traffic. Also would like to run it with a thermo clutch thanks.

Are you having a problem with over heating?

"Normal" temps for cast iron heads, basically stock engine, 180 degree thermostat should stay around 180 degrees with any forward speed around 20 mph (or above); fan has no impact. Sitting at idle in traffic temps may normally rise to 210-215. Not a problem if intermittent and it goes back to 180 when forward speed is resumed. A 50/50 coolant mix at 15 psi boils at about 260 degrees. The 'idiot light' does not illuminate until about 240 degrees.

If you are getting temps above 180 while moving forward, the problem is not the fan. Could be radiator or something else. If you are getting temps above 215 sitting at idle, the first thing to do is make sure your timing is correct. Next, make sure you have a proper shroud and the fan blade is located properly in relation to the shroud (that needs to be done if you change fans too). IF you still have too high temps, six blade fan like this (not the only one):

https://www.lategreatchevy.com/full-...972.html#close

It will directly replace your 4 blade.

GM provided 4 blade fans for sbc engines under 300 hp, unless they had A/C. The 300 +hp engines, and the ones with a/c, got 5 blade (unsymmetrical) fans and the fan clutch. The fan clutch does not improve cooling. It dis-engages the fan at temps where the fan is not needed. This allows the torque used to turn the fan to be applied else where (propulsion).

As Dave said Hayes sells the clutch(es). You may have difficulty find the GM 5 blade fan. You MAY (emphasis on MAY) have to fork over $$ for what is advertised as 'Corvette' fan (but really isn't).

I ran my '63 Impala's 386 hp "383" sbc with a 4 blade fan for 3 years in N. Virginia. I occasionally got temps as high as 220 sitting in traffic in summer at 90+ degrees outside (NEVER boiled over). Because I was driving in a manner that produced those temps rather frequently, I switched to the 6 blade fan. Nothing over 205 since.

Don't know why you asked, just trying to be helpful.

Pete
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Cool info. I was just tring to be preemptive with the whole cooling. Also i have never seen a 4 blade fan on a v8. Im gonna road trip it. I did put in a 180 tstat. I am also adding headers so it might get a little warmer under there. If the stock fan is good to 300 i will just utilize it, but would i be able to put a clutch fan to it or no? I know the clutches can give back a little power and mpgs.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 12:10 PM
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You can read what I wrote on this subject here:

https://www.novas.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19641

Basically the more blades on your fan the more air you will move. You have to keep two things in mind. Chevy put a four blade fixed fan on six cylinders and base V8 engines that had a mild hydraulic cam with weak valve springs that limit RPM. A higher rated V8 got either a five bladed fan for a small block or a seven bladed fan for a BBC mounted on a fluid clutch to limit fan RPM. Above 4,600 RPM the fan will create excess turbulence, and above 6,200 RPM it starts to shed the blades that are riveted to the hub.

Fans only cool at idle by moving enough air through the radiator to shed heat. Make more heat at idle with a bigger (aka more powerful engine) and you need to move more air to cool it up to the heat capacity of the radiator.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireGuy153 View Post
Cool info. I was just tring to be preemptive with the whole cooling. Also i have never seen a 4 blade fan on a v8. Im gonna road trip it. I did put in a 180 tstat. I am also adding headers so it might get a little warmer under there. If the stock fan is good to 300 i will just utilize it, but would i be able to put a clutch fan to it or no? I know the clutches can give back a little power and mpgs.

From memory (which can be unreliable), the GM 4 blade fan has a different bolt pattern than the GM 5 blade. Also, the 4 blade uses 'long' bolts' to bolt to the water pump (thru the spacer). The fan clutch bolts to the water pump and the fan bolts to the clutch (no spacer). I do not believe one may simply add a GM clutch to the GM 4 blade.

Because you mentioned it, I see little (if any) advantage to using headers on a street car unless you 'need' to spend significant time in rpm ranges over about 4800 rpm. Also, installing a complementary high flow (basically open) exhaust is required. Coupling a street exhaust system to headers defeats the headers impacts. Adding headers to a basically stock 283 (especially if it's mated to a 2 speed power glide) is 'lipstick on a pig' (metaphorically speaking). Just my opinion.

You did not say what year your car is. If the 2 1/2" 'ram horn' manifolds will fit your car, in my opinion, they flow well enough for 'street' use.


I've attached a pic of my engine from a few years back. Now you seen one



Pete
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. Its a 64. The reason for the headers is a few things. 1 for the visual at car shows. 2 so its easier for me too run dual exhaust this car only being single exhaust. More of the aftermarket exhaust companys make kits to bolt to headers easier. 3 sound. Theres something about headers that make the exhaust note sweeter. Maybe just me. 4 it doesnt hurt to put them on so when my 350 is ready its one last thing i have to do. 5 long tube headers have always been good for building torque which this little motor can use.6 did i mention that awesome sweet sound headers give an exhaust its like when u add an x pipe or h pipe or a flowmaster or magnaflow muff. Each piece of the exhaust changes the tone to make a unique sound. So why not. For me when u look at my motor u cant tell its a 283 327 350 383. So its alll about the looks. So some one at a car show is not gonna be like why sid u put headers on a 283 come on man. For me i will know but he dont. Lol. Its all a card trick. Like guys that put ss badges on cars that arent ss's.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 10:33 AM
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I always wanted long tube headers too. They are now for sale on craigslist with a big dent in the passenger side leading tube.

Ground clearance.

1969 Imapala convertible build thread here:
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ghlight=impala
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Ouch. Stock ride height or lowered. Im at stock
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 12:14 PM
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Here's some info you may find helpful:

My 1964 Impala Restoration

There is a direct dyno comparison of headers vs ram horn manifolds that is interesting (if not enlightening). The gentleman who owns that car occasionally posts in this forum.

Hope all works out well for you.

Pete
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 12:21 PM
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Ouch. Stock ride height or lowered. Im at stock
Not with the original springs you aren't. Springs sag with age. The original springs are now sagging an inch and a half to two inches.

This is why people who order lowering springs complain that there ride height actually increases when they install new two inch lowering springs (they will drop about a half inch in a few weeks as they start the sagging process over again).

You have to measure your car's height using the specifications and measuring points located in the Chassis Service manual to know where your car's ride height actually is situated.

Big Dave
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireGuy153 View Post
Ouch. Stock ride height or lowered. Im at stock
2" drop spindles and Viking hybrid coil overs with big block springs. Probably was a little too low at the time. I've since switched to mid length headers and back to a Varishock shock/spring setup.

1969 Imapala convertible build thread here:
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ghlight=impala
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Pete thats awesome thank you that 64 is identical to mine. Ineterior and exterior sweet. This why i put new stock springs all the way around . ive learned this the hard way with my fox body mustangs.nif i lower i go shortys if i stay stock i go long tube.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Pete i also read a good article about the Ram horns saying that they were probably the best chevy stock manifold made for flow. They did say that the mid 80s corvette manfiolds could be slightly better. But for a guy like me and a guy like u we might just find a middle ground with these http://www.vetteheaders.com/55-80-co...1-2-collector/ there from mcjacks.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 05:05 PM
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Pete i also read a good article about the Ram horns saying that they were probably the best chevy stock manifold made for flow. They did say that the mid 80s corvette manfiolds could be slightly better. But for a guy like me and a guy like u we might just find a middle ground with these 55 - 80 Corvette Ceramic Coated Ramhorn Manifold Replacement ! 1 3/4' Tubing to a 2 1/2' Collector - McJacks Corvettes there from mcjacks.

$700 !!!

Or:

Two of these:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-674-504

Cut the alternator bracket off one for use on passenger side (they are ambidextrous). A little grinding and it looks like the attached pic (my car w/383). They will flow as well as the $700 ones.

The portion modified is back under the #8 cylinder. Can't see the imperfections.

Want a 'sleeper' look? A little Chevy red paint and different valve covers and I could fool 90% of the folks into thinking I had a 300 hp 327; a very quick one, but a 327. My 383 on the dyno pulled 445 lb-ft of torque at 3800 rpm (the number that matters to me). It also pulled 385 hp at 5200 rpm. Mated to my 4 speed manual, I get 4 cracks at the engine's power range (if I want it).

How does it sound? Just fine to me. Look under the car and it looks just like a '63 should. With that exhaust I'm loosing a little off the dyno numbers but I don't have any leaks, banging on speed bumps/driveway, excessive under hood temps, starter fit/function issues, plug wire burning, etc, etc.

Don't do your car like mine. Do it the way you want it. I'm only providing alternative avenues you may, or may not be aware of.

Helpful is my goal.

Pete
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Wow that price is awesome. Yeah no worries. I love the sleeper look. But i am going with somethin a little different. I got A louvered hood coming. Painted the headlights went wide rim and tires. Haveing the exhaust come out before the tire. No stock sleeper. Some people like purity i just like what i like. Lol. But thanks for helping. U have giving me some ideas for my other project.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Ok guys i got the 5 blade stock fan off of ebay. Just wondering if anyone has a part number they recommend on the thermal clutch. Thanks for all the help.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 12:20 PM
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Only Hayes makes one in America the rest are off shore.

DO NOT buy a HD fan clutch. They are designed for a diesel truck engine with a 20 inch fan. Not for a lighter car fan that is only 18 inches in diameter. Install the HD fan clutch and it might as well be a much cheaper chunk of solid aluminum. It will never free wheel when cold.

Big Dave
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks dave.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
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Only Hayden makes one in America the rest are off shore.

DO NOT buy a HD fan clutch. They are designed for a diesel truck engine with a 20 inch fan. Not for a lighter car fan that is only 18 inches in diameter. Install the HD fan clutch and it might as well be a much cheaper chunk of solid aluminum. It will never free wheel when cold.

Big Dave
I made the same error. The company is Hayden

https://www.haydenauto.com/featured%...s/content.aspx

pick your part from their inventory. Summit and other vendors sell their products.

Pete
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Cool. I wasnt able to find hayes so i was thinking it was hayden. Thanks for clearing it up
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 04:23 PM
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Cool. I wasnt able to find hayes so i was thinking it was hayden. Thanks for clearing it up

Sorry about that! Hayes makes clutches, Hadyden makes thermostats and cooling parts for GM.

Big Dave
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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No problem 👍
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