How do I make an Edelbrock 1406 work on a 327? - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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How do I make an Edelbrock 1406 work on a 327?

What’s up fellas. I have a 1966 impala with a 327. I just dropped it off at my mechanic’s shop to have a ton of work done, including installing a 1406 Edelbrock carburetor. He said it’s not going to work. He said something about having to rework some fuel lines. I called Summit Racing and a guy said that I may need a fuel feed line. I called a carburetor shop and they said I will need an intake manifold from Edelbrock. Do you have to install a new intake manifold when going with this type of carburetor? Anybody running this carburetor on a 327 that can help me out?
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 09:38 PM
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You didn't mention which manifold you have. A 275 horse 327 uses a Rochester QuadraJet carburetor which requires an adapter to mount a square bore AFB Carter/Edelbrock carb; and a fuel line modification as well as modifying your kick-down if you have a PG.

Which baits the question why did you change to a Carter carburetor? If your QuadraJet was still working it flows 620 cfm on a 327 hydraulic camed engine, so it is the same size as the AFB Carter carb (600 cfm) and will not offer better performance and most likely less fuel economy which the Rochester was designed to achieve with it's tiny primary bores.

If your complaint is that the rear barrels do not open, then I hate to disappoint you but the only way you will ever see them open is with a TV camera or to ride on the fender as somebody drives your car vigorously. It takes a small amount of engine vacuum to open the rear barrels which only happens under load while accelerating. The Rochester gets a bad rep as a carburetor because it is really difficult to tune (even I won't try it choosing instead to send it out to a professional, or just replace it with a Holley 4165 series (spread bore) direct replacement carb.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...t/parts/0-6210

A Holley doesn't make any more power than the Carter or the Rochester carburetor were racers love the Holley is in it's ease of tuning. The 4165 falls apart with a screw driver like all other Holley and it shares the same collection of tuning parts (jets, springs, cams and squirters). Where the 4165 shines is it bolts on to your old Rochester manifold and uses the same linkage for the automatic kick down.

You may have other issues such as you are sticking a four barrel on a two barrel manifold, or you have a radical solid roller cam that will not idle below 2,400 RPM and has only 6 inches of vacuum on a good day. Like Han Solo said when inquiring about his reward money amount, "I can imagine an awful lot!" With my experience I have seen a lot of errors and have tried to fix as many as I could.

Need more info to give a better diagnosis.

Big Dave
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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You didn't mention which manifold you have. A 275 horse 327 uses a Rochester QuadraJet carburetor which requires an adapter to mount a square bore AFB Carter/Edelbrock carb; and a fuel line modification as well as modifying your kick-down if you have a PG.

Which baits the question why did you change to a Carter carburetor? If your QuadraJet was still working it flows 620 cfm on a 327 hydraulic camed engine, so it is the same size as the AFB Carter carb (600 cfm) and will not offer better performance and most likely less fuel economy which the Rochester was designed to achieve with it's tiny primary bores.

If your complaint is that the rear barrels do not open, then I hate to disappoint you but the only way you will ever see them open is with a TV camera or to ride on the fender as somebody drives your car vigorously. It takes a small amount of engine vacuum to open the rear barrels which only happens under load while accelerating. The Rochester gets a bad rep as a carburetor because it is really difficult to tune (even I won't try it choosing instead to send it out to a professional, or just replace it with a Holley 4165 series (spread bore) direct replacement carb.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...t/parts/0-6210

A Holley doesn't make any more power than the Carter or the Rochester carburetor were racers love the Holley is in it's ease of tuning. The 4165 falls apart with a screw driver like all other Holley and it shares the same collection of tuning parts (jets, springs, cams and squirters). Where the 4165 shines is it bolts on to your old Rochester manifold and uses the same linkage for the automatic kick down.

You may have other issues such as you are sticking a four barrel on a two barrel manifold, or you have a radical solid roller cam that will not idle below 2,400 RPM and has only 6 inches of vacuum on a good day. Like Han Solo said when inquiring about his reward money amount, "I can imagine an awful lot!" With my experience I have seen a lot of errors and have tried to fix as many as I could.

Need more info to give a better diagnosis.

Big Dave
Thanks. All I know is that the carb on the car is a 4 barrel so the intake must be a 4 hole one. I decided to replace the carburetor because I can tell it’s old and I feel better putting a new one in. Plus it started hesitating. I even thought about getting it rebuilt if it’s original and putting it back in myself, as I have done such a thing before, but from what I read, Edelbrock doesn’t have the tuning issues a lot of carburetors have. You mentioned fuel line modification. This is the part I referenced that a guy from summit said I may need.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...yword=Sumg1532

Here’s a video of my car. In the beginning I have the hood up. You can see a small glimpse of the intake but from what is shown I don’t know if it will help you answer my question.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 01:09 AM
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Air cleaner looks like it is a 1966 275 horse 327 which came with a QuadraJet. A QuadraJet is a spread bore cab so called because the four bores do not fit neatly inside a square the way a Carter or a Holley do. Here is an add for the under carb gasket for the QuadraJet and another for a Holley.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Quadr...iABEgJSxvD_BwE

Click on the larger picture button for a better view
https://www.sriperformance.com/comet.../com-c5262.htm

As you can see one ism't the same as the other though both are four barrels.

The QuadraJet was first placed in production in 1965 and was the carb chosen by GM to feed all of their big blocks and small blocks that had a four barrel. In 1964 your choices were a Rochester 4G four barrel (infinitley worse than a QuadraJet as it was just two Rochester two barrels Siamesed together), or a Carter AVS carburetor (except for the Corvette engines that had either two Carter AVS four barrel carbs, or a single a Holley, or Rochester's mechanical fuel injection.

The only good use for a Rochester 4G was as a door stop. Many sales room doors were held open in junk yards by this cab and manifold, and it is how I came to know of them. Since no one liked them they were replaced at an astonishing rate with a cast iron Holley manifold from the factory or an aftermarket Edelbrock or a Weiand intake. In the early to mid sixties people still preferred the Carter AFB or AVS carburetors over a Holley which Chevy users associated with Ford. Ford-Mercury-Lincoln used Holleys as their OEM carb, but replaced them with their own knock off of the Holley called the Autolite.. NASCAR made the Holley desirable in the early to mid sixties and it has been popular with racers ever since.

Like I said all carbs will make the exact same horsepower regardless of the brand name of the carb. Which is to say all 600 cfm carbs flow exactly the same amount of gas to air (usually a little richer than stoichiometric (which is 14.7 parts air for every part of gas). You tune a carb richer (like 13.2 to 12.8:1 to keep it out of detonation. Racers tune as close as they dare to stoichiometric to maximize horsepower. How easy it is to tune the carb is what makes one brand "better" than another. If you want the ultimate in tunability you buy four IDA carbs; but you usually have to mortgage your house to do so. Everything on a Weber IDA, DGV, or IDF carb can be taken off and a different part replaced to modify it's performance. Only the fuel bowl /housing doesn't change (what designates the model number). Even a 600 cfm Weber makes the same power as any other carb, it just looks better doing so as it is on top of a Ferrari, Maserati or a Bugatti, or a Jag engine.

Big Dave
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 09:56 AM
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Whatís up fellas. I have a 1966 impala with a 327. I just dropped it off at my mechanicís shop to have a ton of work done, including installing a 1406 Edelbrock carburetor. He said itís not going to work. He said something about having to rework some fuel lines. I called Summit Racing and a guy said that I may need a fuel feed line. I called a carburetor shop and they said I will need an intake manifold from Edelbrock. Do you have to install a new intake manifold when going with this type of carburetor? Anybody running this carburetor on a 327 that can help me out?


I had a 327 from a '66 in my '63 when I bought it. The suffix stamped in the front of the block was 'HCH' which was a '66 327 with a Holley carb mated to a powerglide transmission. The car had a quadrajet carb and a 4 speed. The cylinder heads and intake manifold was from a 350 SBC (I forget the year). The car ran well; smoothly w/o missing or any problems. I wanted more torque (400+ lb-ft from 2k-4k rpm) so I replaced it with a '383' sb with the 1406 carb. When dealing with a sbc engine there is almost no such thing a "it won't work".

I do not doubt that the fuel line from the pump to the carb will need modification; not expensive. You will also need to modify how the choke gets its 'heat'. The OEM gets heat from the exhaust manifold and the 1406 is electric. READ the Edelbrock carb manual and install instructions. They say to connect the choke to any 12v 'keyed' source, other than ignition. Make sure you do that.


In '66 one could get the 275 hp 327 from GM with a Holley, a Carter, or a Rochester (quadrajet) 4 barrel carb.

I do not know for sure if you 'need' a new intake manifold (read the install instructions). You may want one. IF you are removing the intake manifold because of the '...ton of work...' you are getting done, it should only cost you the price of the parts to change. Depending on your heads, cam, and exhaust, the 'better' flowing intake manifold may be beneficial for performance.

Pete
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 01:05 PM
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Thats a good looking ride, I think you did good in getting it. It looks great as-is but still has things you can do to make it better.


In short, the Edelbrock 1406 is a good carburetor and a good match for the stock 327 and will still work if you do some mods to your 327.

It may or may not 'bolt-right-on' as they've mentioned already. Depends upon what manifold/carburetor you got from the factory.
We really need to see a decent picture of that carburetor without the air-cleaner setup on it.
The difference in the mounting of the Holley and Quadrajet carbs is the issue - and here's a picture of 'why' if you hadn't found out already. Holley-style (square-bore) on the left and "spread-bore" on the right which is the Quadrajet (GM) style. Big Dave spoke to this up above.

If you have a Holley style carb from the factory, your new carb bolts on easily, just may need to make a fuel line adjustment to fit/attach.
If you have a Quadrajet carb, then you have 2 choices. 1) use a thin (1/2" ?) metal-plate adapter, assuming you have enough clearance to the hood. 2) buy a new intake manifold. It will have both mounting holes in it. AND, it will be lighter and flow better and look nice under the hood.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thats a good looking ride, I think you did good in getting it. It looks great as-is but still has things you can do to make it better.


In short, the Edelbrock 1406 is a good carburetor and a good match for the stock 327 and will still work if you do some mods to your 327.

It may or may not 'bolt-right-on' as they've mentioned already. Depends upon what manifold/carburetor you got from the factory.
We really need to see a decent picture of that carburetor without the air-cleaner setup on it.
The difference in the mounting of the Holley and Quadrajet carbs is the issue - and here's a picture of 'why' if you hadn't found out already. Holley-style (square-bore) on the left and "spread-bore" on the right which is the Quadrajet (GM) style. Big Dave spoke to this up above.

If you have a Holley style carb from the factory, your new carb bolts on easily, just may need to make a fuel line adjustment to fit/attach.
If you have a Quadrajet carb, then you have 2 choices. 1) use a thin (1/2" ?) metal-plate adapter, assuming you have enough clearance to the hood. 2) buy a new intake manifold. It will have both mounting holes in it. AND, it will be lighter and flow better and look nice under the hood.
Thanks Iím picking my car up tomorrow. I will take a picture of the carburetor with the air cleaner off. Iím hoping all I need is an adapter plate and/or fuel line adjustment.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 04:07 PM
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Thanks Iím picking my car up tomorrow. I will take a picture of the carburetor with the air cleaner off. Iím hoping all I need is an adapter plate and/or fuel line adjustment.
Other possible changes/mods are the powerglide kick down linkage (as Dave said) and the air cleaner may not fit the Edelbrock carb. Not saying those WILL need changing/mods, just they MAY.

Info you may find helpful:

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/374...ion-101-a.html

Get the timing right first before futzing with carb.

Pete
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 04:16 PM
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Difference in fuel line is the Edelbrock uses a Banjo fitting (like your brake lines) and the Holley and Rochester carbs used a pipe thread fitting to screw it in place.

From my days (1963 to '67) in dealing with the Carter carb (prior to Edelbrock licensing it from Carter) The Carter had a screw in fuel inlet as well as the Banjo fitting usually used on Chrysler products. Don't know for sure; but I will bet the banjo fitting can be swapped out for a screw in fuel line with a trip to your local NAPA jobber and some quality time rummaging in his Weatherhead brass fitting cabinet.

The thickness of the adapter plate won't be an issue with hood clearance since your car also had a BBC as an option. So there is at least two more inches above the engine that the BBC would be taking up that the SBC isn't using. Where how thick the adapter plate is will be in how it affects your kick-down linkage for your PowerGlide. It will knock it out of adjustment by moving the carburetor up. There should be enough adjustment in the rods and the slots in the bracket to accommodate the change: just be aware that it has to be done if you ever expect to use your "passing" gear.

This all is based upon the assumption that you had a Quadrajet originally, and well all know what we get when we assume.

Big Dave
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 05:17 PM
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Here's another option... return the 1406, and use the money saved on a rebuild of your quadrajet. Then, you won't have to buy an intake, fuel line, kickdown adapter, etc. The quadrajet is a very very good carb. Excellent off idle driveability, decent mileage on the small primaries, and big old secondaries for having fun. I can say this with no bias, my 65 has a 4GC, and my 71 has an Edelbrock 1405 (but used to be 2GC).


I'll add one final point: if a tech can't make a fuel line from a pump to a carb on a SBC... you need to be looking for a different mechanic.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 08:35 PM
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Other possible changes/mods are the powerglide kick down linkage (as Dave said) and the air cleaner may not fit the Edelbrock carb. Not saying those WILL need changing/mods, just they MAY.
Pete

Good call on the air-cleaner.
I have an Edelbrock carb on my ride (with electric choke) and the basic aftermarket chrome open element air cleaner setup. The base did not clear the electric choke. I had to cut about a 1.5" section out of the aftermarket base.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 09:26 PM
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Thanks for posting the video, that brings back some memories. My dad had the 66 Impalas, a white one, a bronze one and a turquoise one. Got my first chance to work on a car, replacing the water pump on one of them My dad did not know about antifreeze, I guess, so the water pumps rusted up pretty fast.

I have a 64 four door, not quite your dream car, but it is the first car I owned
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks fellas. I want to quote everyone but I donít have the time. Yes, it was timed. Putting in a new timing chain with gears was one of the things I had him do. He said he can make the fuel line but with the amount of money he was going to charge me to ďmake it workĒ I thought it wasnít worth it. I wanted to do what I had to do to make the 1406 carb work because of less tuning issues and I had the assumption that it would give me better performance. I was even told it would give me better gas mileage. But now that I know I wonít get better gas mileage or performance, I think Iíll return the Edelbrock and have a shop that has done carburetor work for me before rebuild it. The main reason I want to rebuild the stock carburetor is because I prefer an engine bay to look stock. Even on a lowrider. I like more of the traditional look. Not a fan of flashy lowriders. I never cared for those chrome Edelbrock air cleaners and I want to keep my snorkel air cleaner or get a reproduction one if I ever rebuild the engine.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 01:42 AM
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Rather than attempting rebuild I consider myself knowledgable with carbs having worked with all of them (including Solex and Strombergs) but it doesn't mean I am the best for the job. I would rather buy a rebuilt carb from a company like JET than attempt to work on one. There are other companies that specialize in the QuadraJet. Cliff Ruggles wrote a book describing the rebuilding process and has a shop that builds custom carbs from your core.

Big Dave
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Rather than attempting rebuild I consider myself knowledgable with carbs having worked with all of them (including Solex and Strombergs) but it doesn't mean I am the best for the job. I would rather buy a rebuilt carb from a company like JET than attempt to work on one. There are other companies that specialize in the QuadraJet. Cliff Ruggles wrote a book describing the rebuilding process and has a shop that builds custom carbs from your core.

Big Dave
Iím not going to rebuild it myself. Iím going to have a shop do it. They rebuilt a carburetor for me before back in 2009 and did a good job. Iím just going to rebuild it myself.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 07:57 PM
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Rebuilding the stock correct carb is always the better choice than taking a chance on a random rebuild. Have a watch of a couple youtube vids on Quad rebuild so you can ask your rebuilder all the correct questions. If they don't do a lot of quadrajets (and know the tricks for epoxy, leaky shafts, etc) consider sending it out to a quadrajet expert.


I've personally rebuilt the OEM carbs on both my 65 Impala and 65 C10, and they work perfectly. I like doing carbs. You sit down at the bench, take your time, and have fun with all the little parts that remind me of building model kits when I was a kid.


I think you're making a good choice. Spend that saved cash on the interior!

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for everything. I want to quote everyone but I donít have the time. Hereís pics of the carburetor from when I picked up the car earlier today. I texted the guy who rebuilt a carburetor for me years ago and he said itís a Carter AFB carburetor with an ďalienĒ intake that both appear to be original to the car. He gave me a decent price on a rebuild. I found out that my snorkel air cleaner wonít fit with the Edelbrock carburetor which was even more reason to return it since I donít like those chrome ones Edelbrock provides. The car runs like a sewing machine now so Iím in no hurry to rebuild the carburetor. I will still do it though. I will just put it in myself. Itís not hesitating like it was doing last week. It only started doing that and cutting off after take off after I filled up the tank so that was probably just trash in the fuel lines. I put a bottle of sea foam fuel cleaner in the tank and it ran better before I dropped it off to my mechanic.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Rebuilding the stock correct carb is always the better choice than taking a chance on a random rebuild. Have a watch of a couple youtube vids on Quad rebuild so you can ask your rebuilder all the correct questions. If they don't do a lot of quadrajets (and know the tricks for epoxy, leaky shafts, etc) consider sending it out to a quadrajet expert.


I've personally rebuilt the OEM carbs on both my 65 Impala and 65 C10, and they work perfectly. I like doing carbs. You sit down at the bench, take your time, and have fun with all the little parts that remind me of building model kits when I was a kid.


I think you're making a good choice. Spend that saved cash on the interior!
I would like to rebuild it myself but I donít mind paying someone to do it who has been working on carburetors for decades. Yeah Iím gonna order a stock interior kit after I get it repainted. I just got some chrome arm rest bases and arm rest pads for the interior. Iím gonna order all new chrome parts for the interior where the original has pits like the horn ring, horn cap, window knobs, door handles, coat hangers, and turn signal and shifter lever. Iím gonna order new kick panels as well and even repolish the interior trim. I want it flawless on the inside. Itís gonna be a thorough frame on build.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 08:00 AM
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If I was going to go through the mess of installing a new carb on the engine, I personally would change out the cast Iron intake for an aluminum one at the same time. The intake manifold is not hard to swap out particularly so if you already have the carburetor off. I doubt your existing manifold is port matched which if it was it would be the only issue I could see with such a swap.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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If I was going to go through the mess of installing a new carb on the engine, I personally would change out the cast Iron intake for an aluminum one at the same time. The intake manifold is not hard to swap out particularly so if you already have the carburetor off. I doubt your existing manifold is port matched which if it was it would be the only issue I could see with such a swap.
Why would you swap out a cast iron intake for an aluminum one?
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 10:09 AM
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"... Itís not hesitating like it was doing last week. It only started doing that and cutting off after take off after I filled up the tank so that was probably just trash in the fuel lines..."

Highly recommend you replace the gas tank (especially if the car ever 'sat' for a long time w/o being 'run'). Recommend looking into Spectra (a Canadian co.) to see if they have a direct replacement for your car. One does NOT want gunk from the tank continually and intermittently foul up the carb. The 'stuff' can be very 'fine' and pass through the filter. Don't bother with the stainless steel, good stuff but not worth the extra cost.

Why do I recommend that? I had the problem on my '63. I was REALLY confused and agitated about why my car was running rough, totally intermittently. It was 'very fine 'gunk' particles getting past the filter fouling up the carb. I now run two fuel filters; a 'paper' one before the fuel pump, and a 'cleanable' one between the pump and the carb. $200 is a cheap insurance policy against the *&^%()%$# alternative.

Depending on the condition of the fuel lines from tank to pump, consider replacing them too. Sender? Replace if replacing tank.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 10:56 AM
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Why would you swap out a cast iron intake for an aluminum one?
Newer aluminum intakes are better designed for the flow of the air/fuel mixture to the cylinders, meaning maybe a couple of HP. Aluminum dissipates heat faster. If you get an aluminum intake with an air gap between the valley pan and runners it can reduce air temperatures, meaning you gain a couple of HP. If you get one that matches the carb you plan to use you won't have to mess around with adapter plates which increase the chance of an air leak and can also create unwanted turbulence in your air stream. You don't have to worry about rust. And you save a couple pounds of weight!

Aluminum in general is an improvement on a lot of bolt on parts used for an engine. From water pumps, intakes, heads, valve covers and more. I've also heard of people claiming aluminum oil pans help keep the oil cooler, but for me unless the engine uses a factory aluminum oil pan I'm not going to swap as aluminum's biggest fault it is doesn't dent it cracks and shatters. It wouldn't take long after a stone or something shattered your oil pan before all your oil is on the road and your engine is grinding metal to metal.
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 02:39 PM
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I'm ambivalent on the material and changing the manifold w/o knowing the characteristics of the engine (as you 'worked' it). But... I am not a fan of the air gap manifolds on most 'street' engines. The air gap's advantage is at 'high' rpms that most non-racers don't/can't attain. IF, you change, save your money and skip the air gap (my opinion).

Steel would be my only choice for oil pans but not because aluminum 'shatters' (is brittle). Aluminum is not a brittle metal; it does not shatter from impact. Lots of body parts on cars today are made from aluminum, and they 'dent'/deform just like steel (but at lower stress levels). Their advantage is they weigh less.

Pete
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