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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Questions regarding 1967 Chevrolet 'Impala' SS 427

Hi,

I was doing a little research on the 1967 Chevrolet Impala SS427.
I stumbled around this claim from a Seller:

Quote:
1967 Chevrolet 'Impala' SS 427. I used quotes because a real (rare) SS427 was not actually sold as an impala,
but as its own model, the SS427 (RPO Z24) as opposed to an Impala SS which could be bought with a 427.
So he basically states that there are 2 different cars, a regular Impala SS with a 427 and than an extra car called SS 427.

But is this really true?
I thought there is only one Car and thats the Impala SS 427.
And not an extra car called only SS 427.

He also put a bill of sale in the ad:

There it states Impala SS and SS 427 PKG as option.
So i guess that proofes i'm right?
Or could you also order an Impala SS with a 427 without adding the SS 427 PKG (Z24)? (As the seller states)
But what would be the difference?

If there are really 2 different cars how can i sepperate them form each other?
Only with the original bill of sale or buildsheet?

Also a Question regarding to Handling.

In this ad it states "Special suspension standard"


But in this one it lists "special front and rear suspension and heavy duty radiator" under extra cost items:


So now what?
Standard or extra cost?

Also regarding handling.
Will a 67' SS 427 be more or less on par with the 71' 442 W30?
(Of course Convertible vs Convertible and Coupe vs Coupe)

Maybe someone has a Review from the 67' SS 427?
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Well i was doing further research and it seems like the statement of the seller is true.

But what exactly is the difference between the 1967 Impala SS with a 427 and the 1967 Impala SS with SS427 (Z24) Package?
Both are based on the 1967 Impala SS and have a 427 L36 Engine.
Is the Suspension the only difference?
But then again is the upgraded suspension on SS427 (Z24) Cars Standard or extra cost equipment?
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Well further research at Hemmings confirmed that the SS427 (Z24) Package includes HD Suspension.
It also confirmed that the only way to differentiate a regular Impala SS with a 427 from a SS427 (Z24) Car is the Buildsheet or Window Sticker.
I mean i would not go by the trim. Thats easy fakeable -> Clones.

But Hemmings also states that you could have bought F41 Suspension Package on regular Impala SS.
So im still not sure what would be the advantage of a SS427 (Z24) Car over a regular Impala SS with 427 and F41 Options.
Except trim. but who cares about the trim...

I suspect the SS427 (Z24) cars maybe have further improvements over the regular SS like HD Cooling, Transmission etc.
Otherwise i think it would really be irrelevant what you buy as long as it has 427 and F41 Options. At least from a performance point of view only.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 11:34 AM
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I don't know, so just guessing that a real "SS427" would have the special hood with the center louvers, while an Impala with a 427 would have the standard hood. Also the rear trunk emblem/molding.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Yes of course the trim is different but i would not go by the trim as this is easy fakeable -> Clones.
Well i suspect there are more differences between a SS427 (Z24) and a Regular Impala SS with 427 and F-41 than just trim.
But maybe not, who knows. Its also unclear if any regular SS with 427 and F-41 have been built at all.

As i am not 100% sure i would go with the SS427 (Z24) just to be sure to get the best car possible. (From a performance point of view.)

Well from a performance point of view the 1968 SS427 (Z24) with a 427 L72 Engine would be even better.
But i personally like the styling of the 1967 Cars best.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_ View Post
Yes of course the trim is different but i would not go by the trim as this is easy fakeable -> Clones.
Well i suspect there are more differences between a SS427 (Z24) and a Regular Impala SS with 427 and F-41 than just trim.
But maybe not, who knows. Its also unclear if any regular SS with 427 and F-41 have been built at all.

As i am not 100% sure i would go with the SS427 (Z24) just to be sure to get the best car possible. (From a performance point of view.)

Well from a performance point of view the 1968 SS427 (Z24) with a 427 L72 Engine would be even better.
But i personally like the styling of the 1967 Cars best.
If you started out with a POLICE car (9C1) then you have all of the heavy duty suspension parts. You could order it with a 427 but few departments did that as they suck gas at three times the rate of a small block. Staring with a 9C1 car you can install a BBC (any displacement, but I would start with a 540 and go bigger) add a bigger radiator (it already has an external oil cooler and an oil cooler for the power steering pump) then add a much larger external transmission oil cooler to take care of all of the added heat that extra power generates. You have bigger brakes than a standard car now (12 inch rotor and drums a half inch wider) but if you like high speed driving add bigger brake rotors and rear discs. Sway bar upgrades are a must as this pig likes to wallow, so as big as you can find is a necessity. Bigger tires on bigger wheels to clear the bigger brakes wouldn't hurt.

You now have the biggest baddest full size ever built but it still missing the hood blister which was a unique feature of the 427SS. They are not reproduced and all of the originals are sitting on top of a car in someone's garage. They occasionally come up on flea-Bay as some one wrecks their car. but even then they are usually bent up pretty baddly. As I said earlier they are not cheap and cost as much as a Barret-Jackson restored car just for a bent hood. As such there are few "clones" running around.

Big Dave
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Here is a Vintage Road Test from Car Life regarding the 1967 SS 427
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...7_Test_1-5.pdf

Well according to that i suspect the 70-71 442 W30 will handle better than the 67 SS 427.
Well almost to be expected given the Impala being a way bigger car.
But still the Impala SS 427 (Z24) is a very cool car at half the price.

Quote:
If you started out with a POLICE car (9C1) then you have all of the heavy duty suspension parts.
You could order it with a 427 but few departments did that as they suck gas at three times the rate of a small block.
Well that would be a pretty nice car for sure but i guess they are even harder to find than a SS427 (Z24).
At least with a 427.

Quote:
Staring with a 9C1 car you can install a BBC (any displacement, but I would start with a 540 and go bigger) add a bigger radiator
(it already has an external oil cooler and an oil cooler for the power steering pump) then add a much larger external transmission oil cooler
to take care of all of the added heat that extra power generates. You have bigger brakes than a standard car now
(12 inch rotor and drums a half inch wider) but if you like high speed driving add bigger brake rotors and rear discs.
Sway bar upgrades are a must as this pig likes to wallow, so as big as you can find is a necessity.
Bigger tires on bigger wheels to clear the bigger brakes wouldn't hurt.
I think you are talking about upgrading a 9C1 car with a smaller engine?
Because i personally dont think it would be necessary to upgrade a 9C1 Car with a 427 Engine. I think that Engine would be big enough.

-----

I also stumbled around this hemmings article:
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/articl...impala-ss-427/

I dont really want to argue if this car is real or fake as there seems to be no evidence that
they ever put 427 L72 Engines in the 67 Cars.

I just want to know if you could simply swap the L36 in a 1967 SS 427 (Z24) for a L72 Engine?
Or did these cars (if they ever existed) had further differences like HD Transmission etc.?

Quote:
and all of the forged bits inside that help keep the engine together even when it gets up around 7,000 RPM, well north of the tachometerís 6,000 RPM redline.
Because that and the additional HP would be pretty awesome.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Did the SS427 (Z24) Cars had the same Suspension Parts as the 9C1 Cars?
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_ View Post
Did the SS427 (Z24) Cars had the same Suspension Parts as the 9C1 Cars?
The cop car was actually tougher and was built with heavier duty parts than the SS. The 9C1 was the starting point for the 1994-97 Impala SS which actually had a heavy duty suspension; but it had a F40 instead of the F41 springs and shocks (rides firmer with the F41 cop car). This was the only full size built as a hot rod since the 427SS.

In the sixties the SS was a body style and a trim package. it didn't buy you anything as to motor performance, or in handling through heavier duty suspension and brake parts. So you could have your SS body powered by a six cylinder and wallow around in your car as you cruised seated in your bucket seats feeling all sporty.

Racers back in the early to mid sixties bought a Biscayne 2 dr sdn body with either a 409 or a 427 power plant to get a good power to weight ratio for drag racing rather than the same weight in a Chevelle limited to the smaller 396 motor. That ended in 1967 with the introduction of the BBC equipped Camaro that saved 350 pound in curb weight off the Biscayne. It is all about power to weight.

I never, ever, bought a SS car. I bought used six cylinder bodies and blew them apart replacing everything in the car with heavy duty suspension, brakes, cooling and the biggest baddest engine I could build. No stripes, no trim or bling, and definitely no added weight.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Quote:
The cop car was actually tougher and was built with heavier duty parts than the SS.
Well thats what i expected and think is also true for the cooling, right?

So basically the best you can buy is a 9C1 Car with a 427, followed by the SS427 (Z24).
The normal SS Package is just trim, i know. But not the Z24.
But of course you could also add performance options to a regular Impala SS. (But i think really nice equipped regular SS are pretty rare, if they exist at all.)

Quote:
I also stumbled around this hemmings article:
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/articl...impala-ss-427/

I dont really want to argue if this car is real or fake as there seems to be no evidence that
they ever put 427 L72 Engines in the 67 Cars.

I just want to know if you could simply swap the L36 in a 1967 SS 427 (Z24) for a L72 Engine?
Or did these cars (if they ever existed) had further differences like HD Transmission etc.?
Thats would still interest me.
What i basically want to know is if you can simply swap the L36 for a L72 (direct swap) and basically have
what the guy in the Hemmings Article has (or at least claims to have) or if there would be more changes required?

Having an engine that can rev up to 7k would be pretty cool at least.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 10:15 PM
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You can put any big block in place of any other big block if you are talking about a full size car (not so for a Camaro or a Nova). In fact today a 427 is to just like all of the 396 engines I sent to Japan to become Toyotas: too small.

A BBC is a race car engine that requires high compression and high reving to make the power it was designed for. Neither are possible on today's pump gas

As such if you want a BBC you need something 500 inches or bigger to justify the added weight you are putting over the nose of the car. Bigger is better. To me a big block starts at 540 cubes and grows to 632 before I start to worry about closing my flat hood.

But yes you can pull any big block out and swap it out for another BBC (just keep in mind almost all donor BBC engines today are out of trucks so the oil pan won't fit in a car).

When I was young (a half century ago) I ran L-88 427 BBC in my Camaros and Novas and ran low tens all the time, but I was also burning Sunoco 260 which is equivalent to 104 octane race gas today). Compare $17.00 a gallon (plus shipping and handling: and believe me after 9/11 race gas is considered a hazardous waste that you have to pay to dispose of the container, so handling fees add up) to the $2.36 cents a gallon I paid back in 1968 dollars. You are going to pay for the added compression of a 425 horse 427, or a 435 horse 427 engine. Even the 390 horse passenger 427 has 10.5:1 compression which wants race gas or aluminum heads and 93 octane pump gas to run.

So you can replace the 427 with another. But why bother with another 427? Instead buy Chevy orange engine paint and paint your aluminum headed 540 crate motor to look like a 427. Lots cheaper and it will run on today's pump swill.

Big Dave
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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What i meant is if i would replace the L36 with a L72 if the Transmission and everything else could take it or if other equipment would need to be modified/swapped out also.
I mean it does not really make sense to buy a 67 SS427 (Z24) for high $$$ just to make a restomod out of it.

But simply swapping out the engine (direct swap) would not be that big of a deal, especially since you could swap it easily back if you should ever decide to sell the car with not to much effort.

Otherwise it would of course make more sense to buy a regular Impala SS (with a Big Block) or a Police Car (depending on how much they cost) and put in a even bigger engine as you suggested along with other modifications.
But i guess (at least most of) the Police Cars are 4 doors?


The alternative would of course be to buy a 1968 Chevrolet Impala SS 427 with the L72 Engine.
Those came stock with it. But most likely wont be cheap.


Here is one for sale for example:
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...a/1762761.html
The seller claims its a SS 427 (Z24) but i highly doubt that, looks more like a regular Impala with a 427 L72 Engine.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-29-2020, 01:38 AM
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All police cars are four doors to stash any occupants in the back seat. And they are sedans and not hard tops to gain the structural rigidity of the added "B" pillar to tie the roof into the middle of the body.

Yes if the car came with a 427 from the factory then the transmission mated to the big block will hold up as will as the rear end regardless of the horsepower rating of the engine. This is because it is torque that breaks parts not horsepower. The engines I choose to use have enough torque to break a 12 bolt which is why I chose to use a Dana 60 instead of a 12 bolt. Surprisingly the TH400 can handle these brutes as is, though with a 582 or a 632 I might add aftermarket parts to strengthen it.

The full size factory cars with BBC all had either a Muncie four speed or a TH 400 automatic transmission, and the rear end was a Spicer 12 bolt. Even small block cop cars had TH400 transmissions and 12 bolts back before 1973. Cop cars are all automatics since you can't steer the car, talk on the radio, and wrestle a prisoner while shifting.

Cop cars didn't have a different engine than any other car (with the exception of newer cars sporting a 305 that had the high out put engine instead of the normal one). The governor installed in all transmission made since 1984 wasn't affected by it being a cop car instead it was set by the tire's speed rating on the car when it left the factory (cop cars the Z/28, and Corvettes had Z rated tires (or higher in the case of the 'vette), but they were usually special tires with a different side wall thickness to survive pot holes and running over rail road tracks at high speed). I never saw anything but Goodyear Eagles and TA tires from BF Goodrich an any cop car I ever drove.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-29-2020, 10:39 AM
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Z24

The 1967 SS 427 Z24 option: available only with Impala SS, Inc. 385 HP 427, special hood, red stripe nylon tires, ornamentation and suspension features.

Paul
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-29-2020, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Thanks for all that useful information.

Quote:
Yes if the car came with a 427 from the factory then the transmission mated to the big block will hold up as will as the
rear end regardless of the horsepower rating of the engine. This is because it is torque that breaks parts not horsepower.
Thats good news, because than there is no reason to buy a 1968 Car at all.
If the L36 Engine isnt good enough i could simply swap it for an L72 (or similar) and basically have the same
performance as a 68' Car but with the looks of the 67' that i like better.

-----

One last question.
Those RPM Numbers i read online
5500rpm for the L36 and even up to 7000rpm for the L72.

I guess those are peak numbers? Whats safe sustained values?
I guess its like with the Hemi Cars that can rev up to 6000rpm but sustained speeds of 3500rpm are better not exceeded?
But maybe being corvette engines they can take more abuse than the street hemi?
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-29-2020, 06:07 PM
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If I am not mistaken, and I often am when I rely upon my memory. They made a 1967 427SS as well as a series for 1969. By that time the factory saw the demand for these cars drop into the tens instead of the thousands and stopped offering them. The hood changed every year and from memory the '67 had two half blisters with grills similar to, only bigger than the Chevelle SS. There is a book written about just these cars I read years ago, might even still be in my library somewhere.

Big Dave
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-29-2020, 08:56 PM
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Great info

In case you donít have this chock full of information:
https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/doc...-Chevrolet.pdf

Paul

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2020, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Thanks for the link.

Well if you do some research it seems like not all police cars are 4 doors, there have also been some 2 doors.
But i dont know if there where 2 door chevrolet Police Cars in 67' and if so they will be extremely rare.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2020, 09:31 AM
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L72

Just as info, there were no L72 Full Size Cars in 1967.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2020, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Yes i know that.

Well if someone has a Sales Brochure for 67' Chevrolet Police Cars i would be interested in it.
Found some Chevrolet Police Vehicle Brochures but not for 67'.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2020, 07:40 PM
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No brochures.

You (as the procurement officer of your department) went into the sales manager's office and told him what you wanted. He Whipped out his sales book and looked to see what was available under RPO, printed out an Invoce (looked like a window sticker listing options) and then they took that back to their board of county commissioners or city council to try and get the number of cars they wanted approved. When that was denied they went back to the dealership and looked at the next best option a factory Taxi cab (they had the same HD suspensions but with softer springs and the same HD cooling. But that was it, no Z rated tires, 120 mph speedo that wasn't certified.

In the sixties this is what separated a dedicated factory cab from the standard passenger car:

https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassi...xi-Cabs-04.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/www.curbsideclassi...xi-Cabs-05.jpg

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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2020, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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So thats all on Material there is?



Why did the taxi cabs had heavy duty suspension and cooling? Just to make them last longer or did they need it for other reasons? if so why did they need it?


Quote:
He Whipped out his sales book and looked to see what was available under RPO, printed out an Invoce

Was this the regular sales book or did they have an extra book for police cars?
Well if its the regular book i think it wont help find out if there was the option for police to order 2 door cars or not.
Just seen proofs yesterday that oldsmobile offered and built some 2 door cop cars for example. but im unsure about Chevrolet.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2020, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Why did the taxi cabs had heavy duty suspension and cooling? Just to make them last longer or did they need it for other reasons? if so why did they need it?
Because the cabs drove on the same mean streets that the cops did. Most inner cities have an obstacle course of pot holes and broken concrete approaches to rusted out steel bridges.

Heavy Duty Cooling was required because customers wanted a cool cab. That requires A/C and at idle A/C requires a very HD cooling system.

I hate to say it but the Chevy cab was a cream puff compared to the Checker. Best cab I have ever been was the English AUSTIN CONVENTRY COACHWORKS FX4 Diesel Cab driven by a certified London hack. Best experience ever in a cab.

Big Dave
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 08:19 PM
 
 
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Michael, it was nice to see the link to the Hemmings article on Bill Wickman. I knew Bill for almost 20 years. I am not about to start another viscious dialogue about the veracity of his car but, I was with him when he took it apart, restored and re-assembled it. My personal belief is that is is real and there are some other 67 SS owners that claim another of these one-off speed demons. Eventually, the full size Impala archives from GM will come to light of day. I am going to find my personal photos and later post a link for you to copy them for yourself. In the meantime, just build your car the way you want and call it a "Tribute 67 SS 427"

When Bill passed away years ago his girfriend tossed all his personal files. The amount of documentation that was lost will never be known. RIP Bill.

Ed
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 08:52 PM
 
 
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For Michael & anyone interested:

Bill Wickman's 1967 SS427

password: restoration

http://s1097.photobucket.com/user/ch...?sort=3&page=1

Last edited by chevvyeddie; 04-02-2020 at 09:53 PM.
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