64 Impala control arm shafts - Impala Tech
General Tech For best results use forums below.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-09-2010, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 144
 
64 Impala control arm shafts

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the left and right upper control arm shafts?
The shafts on my 64 appear to be the same part and are installed in the same front to rear position. After the front-end was rebuilt, I had to cut the top of the shock absorber threaded end off so that it would clear the control arm shaft(just barely). Also, to get the proper alignment there are no shims on the driver's side and a healthy stack of them on the passenger's side.
This car has never been hit, the frame is absolutely straight and the control arms are true.
To add to my woes, the new bushings have started squeeking loudly after about 5000 miles. Something just aint right and I haven't figured it out.
bowtyebob is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-09-2010, 04:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 1,381
Blog Entries: 34
 
Garage
As I have heard, the shafts are made the same. The left side needs a jog in it to clear the steering column, while on the right it does not matter, so they just made life easier and made them the same part. Of course they do matter front to back, so as to clear the steering column. Also to clear the upper shock bolt, although it may work either way in that regard since it is a big loop.

Perhaps your alignment issue and the squeaking bushings are related. If your bushings were old stock the rubber could have decayed and fail prematurely.

Another thing to consider is the crossmember that goes under the engine, tends to cave in with time. My 64 has some offset shafts, sometimes called “problem solvers” that take care of that issue for me. I had them put in back in the 80’s and the problem has not become worse, so I am thankful for that.

http://www.lategreatchevy.com/chevy-...1958-1964.html



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

1964 Impala 4 door sedan

My Bloggy Thing: http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2285
dcairns is offline  
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 144
 
Thanks,
Possibly an offset shaft would help. I need to check into this further. As is right now, I have about 1/2 degree neg camber with NO shims and the shock bolt is almost directly under the upper control arm shaft and needed to have it cut off all the way to the jam nut to keep it from interfering with the shaft.
I didn't have this situation until the front end was rebuilt and the car was properly aligned. Grrrr.
The squeeky bushings have only a few thousand miles of use, but I have found that some 'rubber' products produced in China are horrible. The rubber bushings for my 'new' power steering cylinder (made in China) literally disintegrated within 5000 miles. I replaced them with modified 45 year old shock bushings that are holding up just fine.
I don't understand how the cross member could affect alighment.
bowtyebob is offline  
 
post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 04:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 1,381
Blog Entries: 34
 
Garage
The front crossmember is a kind of U shape, as it ages, the tops of the U come closer together. The upper control arms attach at the top of the U and the lowers towards the bottom of the U. So you wind up with the upper control arms being closer together than they ought to be, relative to the lower control arms, which affects camber. Too much of this 'collapsing U' and you need the offset shafts to allow proper asjustment.

I don't know why you would have had to cut the shock bolt. Did you get the proper shock for the car? I used Monroe Sensa-Trac shocks, and they fit just fine.










100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

1964 Impala 4 door sedan

My Bloggy Thing: http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2285
dcairns is offline  
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 144
 
Yes. I see what you mean. I had to go out and take a closer look and I can see that if the cross member has sagged a bit I could pull the upper control arm in which would explain why there are no shims and I have very little camber. With the original shatf and no shims the shock bolt ended up much closer to the shaft than your pic shows; so close that the top had to be cut to get clearance.
The shack are the correct KYBs.
I'm thinking that replacing the shaft with an offset one may be the way to go rather than replacing the cross member.
Thanks again
Bob
bowtyebob is offline  
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 144
 
Looking at your photos I think that I see shims behind the shaft. As you can see, if there are no shims there at all, the shaft will get very close to shock which is why I had to get out the cut off wheel. I had even considered turning the shaft around since there should sill be sufficient clearance for the steering, but I do not believe that would work because it looks as if that would build in a lot of caster.
bowtyebob is offline  
post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 10:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 1,381
Blog Entries: 34
 
Garage
My Monroe's have a cushin built into the shaft, which is why you see it bolted directly to the frame.


Were your KYB's supposed to have some rubber bushings either under or under and on top? If you did not install the rubber bushing, it would make the 'bolt' end of the shaft longer.





100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

1964 Impala 4 door sedan

My Bloggy Thing: http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2285
dcairns is offline  
post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2010, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 144
 
I would like to send you a pic of my 'problem', however it seems that I can't upload one. The KYBs have a cushion both under and over the hole in the control arm, but the problem is not a question of lenght. It is it's relative position in relation to the shaft. If there were a shim or two between the shaft and the control arm the shock would clear the shaft. This issue did not occur until the front suspension was rebuilt. I am begining to suspect that there is a problem with the lower control arm bushings causing the lower control arm to be slightly too far inboard. At any rate, if I cannot find a resolution with an offset upper shaft, I may have to rebuild the entire front end all over again.
bowtyebob is offline  
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 03:19 AM
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtyebob View Post
Does anyone know if there is a difference between the left and right upper control arm shafts?
The shafts on my 64 appear to be the same part and are installed in the same front to rear position. After the front-end was rebuilt, I had to cut the top of the shock absorber threaded end off so that it would clear the control arm shaft(just barely). Also, to get the proper alignment there are no shims on the driver's side and a healthy stack of them on the passenger's side.
This car has never been hit, the frame is absolutely straight and the control arms are true.
To add to my woes, the new bushings have started squeeking loudly after about 5000 miles. Something just aint right and I haven't figured it out.
That is a nice question.. I just noticed that mine aren't really identicle. Maybe because of sloppy manufacturing at the auto parts factory or whatever... but the ends that go into the bushings are not centered on one end of at least one of my shafts.

Last edited by kevingarrett; 02-21-2011 at 07:46 AM.
kevingarrett is offline  
post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 10:35 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 70
 
I think i have your same problem in my 64 ss, i justed posted a message in the engine section. Top of my kyb shocks just toush the arm too but that doesnt worry me. my problem in the steering column shaft rubbing on the arm - i looked at shimming out the steering box but then my rag joint hits my power steer pulley. What are these offset steering column shafts you talk about?
Ryan 64 SS is offline  
post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 01:59 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 70
 
just had a look at my arms

the one on the left side is straight and rubs on the steering shaft, the one on the right has a kink in it on the left of it which is obviosly doing nothing. maybe i can switch them over so the one with the kink in it is curving around the steering shaft? any reason why i cant do this?
Ryan 64 SS is offline  
post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 03:00 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 1,381
Blog Entries: 34
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan 64 SS View Post
... What are these offset steering column shafts you talk about?
I think you mean the offset control arm shaft. These allow proper camber to be set on frames that are out of spec (due to age or accident).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan 64 SS View Post
the one on the left side is straight and rubs on the steering shaft, the one on the right has a kink in it on the left of it which is obviosly doing nothing. maybe i can switch them over so the one with the kink in it is curving around the steering shaft? any reason why i cant do this?
Sounds like the upper control arm shafts were swapped. Other than the work involved, there should be nothing to prevent you from changing them back. Although I would be a little suspicious, since one is straight. Makes me think it is a replacement, possibly an offset shaft, so to make it all work you might have to get a pair of offset shafts that both have the kink in them to clear the steering column.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

1964 Impala 4 door sedan

My Bloggy Thing: http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2285
dcairns is offline  
post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 03:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 70
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcairns View Post
I think you mean the offset control arm shaft. These allow proper camber to be set on frames that are out of spec (due to age or accident).




Sounds like the upper control arm shafts were swapped. Other than the work involved, there should be nothing to prevent you from changing them back. Although I would be a little suspicious, since one is straight. Makes me think it is a replacement, possibly an offset shaft, so to make it all work you might have to get a pair of offset shafts that both have the kink in them to clear the steering column.
Yes it looks like the shafts are just on the wrong side. Originally are they both straight? if i swap them over is the a reason why i cant have the straight one on the passenger side as it doesnt need to clear anything?
Ryan 64 SS is offline  
post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 11:15 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 1,381
Blog Entries: 34
 
Garage
On my car, both have the bend in them, and I have heard others say the same. I guess GM found it easier to have just one part rather than two. That is why I was thinking one was replaced to get you the straight shaft.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

1964 Impala 4 door sedan

My Bloggy Thing: http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2285
dcairns is offline  
post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 01:37 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln NE
Posts: 185
 
On my '62 Impala which I 'think' has been untouched in the a-arm areas has the shaft with the steering shaft clearance bend on the left (drivers side), and a straight shaft on the right (passenger side). My '64 SS has shafts with bends on both sides.

Kevin

'63 Impala SS 409/425 owned since '71
'64 Impala SS 327/300 factory 4sp p/s p/b air
'66 Impala 327/275 glide 2dr/hdtp
'66 Belair Wagon 283 700R4
'62 Impala 350/350 dual quad th350 2dr/hdtp
'00 Camaro SS 6sp hurst SLP

Last edited by chevman66; 03-07-2011 at 01:39 PM. Reason: added info
chevman66 is offline  
post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 01:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 70
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevman66 View Post
On my '62 Impala which I 'think' has been untouched in the a-arm areas has the shaft with the steering shaft clearance bend on the left (drivers side), and a straight shaft on the right (passenger side). My '64 SS has shafts with bends on both sides.
Thanks, it would make sense that it should be like that.
Ryan 64 SS is offline  
post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 01:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 70
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcairns View Post
On my car, both have the bend in them, and I have heard others say the same. I guess GM found it easier to have just one part rather than two. That is why I was thinking one was replaced to get you the straight shaft.
Thanks
You would think that the straight shaft must be an original part, why would it be aftermarket?
Ryan 64 SS is offline  
post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 02:22 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln NE
Posts: 185
 
.....and I don't think I have ever replaced an upper shaft with an aftermarket or replacement to be able to say what they would be like.....I guess if I were to guess....I'd say aftermarket would be with the bend to fit either side.......

Kevin

'63 Impala SS 409/425 owned since '71
'64 Impala SS 327/300 factory 4sp p/s p/b air
'66 Impala 327/275 glide 2dr/hdtp
'66 Belair Wagon 283 700R4
'62 Impala 350/350 dual quad th350 2dr/hdtp
'00 Camaro SS 6sp hurst SLP
chevman66 is offline  
post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 03:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 70
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevman66 View Post
.....and I don't think I have ever replaced an upper shaft with an aftermarket or replacement to be able to say what they would be like.....I guess if I were to guess....I'd say aftermarket would be with the bend to fit either side.......
I see the replacement parts for sale on the various websites both right and left have a bend in them, and they list them separatly as a left and a right side. Im guessing the only reason is so the bend in is the same position on either side so it doesnt look wrong or backwards. Because there is no reason for the bend on the right side is there?
Ryan 64 SS is offline  
post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-07-2011, 03:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 70
 
here is the photos of the left and right side

you will see the worn mark on the steering shaft where it has been rubbing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0131.jpg
Views:	519
Size:	20.6 KB
ID:	1719   Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0132.jpg
Views:	489
Size:	20.3 KB
ID:	1720  
Ryan 64 SS is offline  
post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-25-2011, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 144
 
Thanks for all the input.
I rebuilt the front-end with new control arm shafts and bushings, had it realigned and ane problem went away ...just like that. I used an aftermarket kit from Ecklers that came with left and right upper control arm shafts. The original ones, at least on early build cars, were idential and used on either side.
No, I don't know why the problem went away. The original shafts were worn slightly from the 'squeeky' bushings. The new parts seemd to be dimentionally the same as the old so..... I dunnow. What I do know is that the squeek is gone, there are no more clearance problems and the ride is noticeably better.
My suspicion is that the original rebuild was done with inferior/defective parts.
bowtyebob is offline  
post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-25-2011, 09:42 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln NE
Posts: 185
 
Glad to hear it all worked out for you Bob

Kevin

'63 Impala SS 409/425 owned since '71
'64 Impala SS 327/300 factory 4sp p/s p/b air
'66 Impala 327/275 glide 2dr/hdtp
'66 Belair Wagon 283 700R4
'62 Impala 350/350 dual quad th350 2dr/hdtp
'00 Camaro SS 6sp hurst SLP
chevman66 is offline  
post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 01:05 PM
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lacon, IL
Posts: 2
 
Yo Bowtyebob. I just finished rebuilding driver side suspension on 63 Impala ragtop. New Arm bushings, ball joints, spring snubbers etc. The shocks were fresh so I put the old one back. I met with same problem of shock stud so close to upper arm support shaft I had to use an open end to tighten the top of shock stud. The cont. arm shaft is in org. position.Straight end forward.

Until done with car and I do the alignment. I put shims back as were before. 2 1/8th. ft. 3 1/8th. rear.

If I need to remove shim or shims in rear to align---I will have to trim the shock stud. There was room for socket when dissasembled. lower arm bushing rubber on rear bushing was totally missing and most of front. However upper bushings were still in tact--but cracked.

I have run into this before, several years ago. As for swapping the shaft. Notice the distance from bolt hole to bushing is shorter on the rear. About .500. Swapping ends would change caster dramatically.

Why that shock is so close now ????? Car only has 58K miles. Been babied By my customer, the current owner. But who knows how the orig. owner used it. It is a 327 4 speed. Perhaps he jumped ramps.? Or car was wrecked. And tweaked the control arm mounting areas.
It will interesting to see how pass side turns out. It is next to rebuild yet today.
Animal Jim is offline  
post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-10-2012, 08:21 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,843
 
Welcome to the Team Jim!

Big Dave
Big Dave is offline  
post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-12-2012, 02:07 PM
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lacon, IL
Posts: 2
 
Thanks Big Dave. Something I forgot to ad to my post to bowtiebob about the upper control arm shaft and about caster changes. When changing caster it also rocks the sreering arm in it's plane. If change is out of spec parameters, say for racing,-- "bumpsteer" can become a problem. Bump steer is toe changing as ft suspension travels up and down. A huge caster change moves the steering arm enough to put the tie rod angle different from the control arm angle. Race cars have adjustments to correct "Bumpsteer". Some manufacturers have tie rod adaptor kits for stock tie rod ends to change bumpsteer. In some cases on 60s and early 70s cars, the pitman arm and idler arm can be heated and bent. That procedure is a tricky operation. needs to be done by someone familar with that operation. But it has been widely done.

Some stock vehicles have bumpsteer problems from factory. Torinos, late 60s Olds and more. I have corrected many years back by bending pitman and idler arm

A quick way to check find someone with a Bear toe scuff guage. Truck test shops have scuff gauges. Drive car over scuff guage. Then do it again with someone sitting on ft. fender. It should read close to same if bump is close.

On alignment rack--watch toe reading static. Then raise car in front 2" and or pull down 2" . Toe should stay close to same.

Another tip is: If you go to get suspention/steering worked on and aligned-ask about toe change. Even call the condition by racer slang "Bumpsteer". If the mechanic does not know or understand what you mean. FLEE! Till you find someone that does.

Last edited by Animal Jim; 10-12-2012 at 03:13 PM. Reason: spelling
Animal Jim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Impala Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome