Hi All, I just purchased my first classic, and its a 63 ss. 327 small block, its not quite running right and i am trying to figure it out and I figure this has to be a good place to start. So below i am going to list what i know about the car and the issues im having and see if anything makes sense;


Car details



327 small block
-bored .030 over
-heads from 57 impala for some reason
-replacement 325/350 cam from compcams
-hardened valves to run unleaded
-edelbrock 4 barrel

2.73 rearend (unconfirmed but suggested by previous owner)

4 speed powerglide



Issues:
-Power in first gear is painfully weak, so much so that if i dont seriously rev up the engine before letting the clutch out the car will stall out and then doesnt want to start back up right away like its flooded. It feels like I'm taking off in second gear, or even third, but im definitely not.
-running very hot, 230 degrees was the highest i saw before i got scared and shut it down. Noticed today the rad is only a 2 row copper/brass, seems like this should be a 3 row? Fan shroud is in place so i will start with 180 thermostat and a coolant flush?
-Clutch releasing very very high, basically not grabbing until its about an inch away from being completely let out - clearly just need to do a clutch i think.

Welcome to the Team!

First thing before you throw more money at it is to consider what needs to be replaced and why. You have a nine inch vacuum power booster, which should be an elleven inch since this is a SBC and there is no lack of room for the bigger more efficient booster. What you have now is basically expensive manual brakes.

Cooling is going to be an issue any time you add power to a car. Roughly a third of the heat of combustion is shed through the radiator. It is measured in BTU's but the factory converts this to HP. So a six cylinder or a 283 2 bbl had only two rows. A high powered V8 (anything over 300 horse power) would have three rows. If you had a hot 409 with A/C (a combination of high reving solid lifters that was banned after 1965 due to A/C compressor front seal failures) you got four rows. Additionally if you have a manual trans run an automatic radiator any way. The fins are more tightly packed together for more surface area with the automatic. If you run an automatic add a supplemental external cooler to take some of the load off the radiator.

2.73 rear gears are great fro driving across the country, but are useless in terms of performance. Consider a 3.26 or a 3.55 rear gear. Especially if you have a PowerGlide (an automatic that has no clutch or first gear. A TH350 is the same size and directly replaces a PG offering you a first gear. If you are swapping transmissions replace the PG with a 200R4. Four forward gears with final drive being OD.

Since you mentioned a clutch you have a manual. Standard was a three speed Saginaw. A four speed Borg-Warner T-10 was optional. It could have a Muncie or any other tranny, but it is not a PowerGlide. You need to adjust the clutch linkage to get the release lower in the pedal travel.

Finally if you have an aftermarket four speed shifter you may be taking off in second gear because the shift lever is on up side down. Wouldn't be the first one I found that way. Makes a great anti-theft deterrent and no one could drive your car without knowing the secret.

Big Dave

Dang Big Dave!

Hell of a thorough response, it is much appreciated. I’m curious about the brakes, I’ll look more into that. I was consider a front disc conversion anyway so that may just sway me.

I apologize about the confusion with the trans. It is a 4 speed, it doesn’t seem aftermarket from being underneath the car today, I should have snapped a pic. I do not think I am taking off in second though, I’ve tested that theory already.

My mechanic recommended a 3.73 gear, this is not a race car, just a weekend cruiser. I don’t really care about MPG, just want a nice mix of being able to giddy up and go at a red light and comfortably cruise the highway. What would you recommend for that?

And lastly, any recommendations on a radiator that won’t break the bank?

Much appreciated again!


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If your heads are from a 57 chevy the 327 could have some breathing issues going on as in 57 the largest V-8 available was a 283 cid. Granted with the fuel injection (Super Turbo Fire) and the Duntov solid lifter cam they put the engine at 283 Horse power, but I doubt you have the heads from one of these beasts. You most likely have the heads off a 185 HP optioned car.

The overall engine build just doesn't seem to fit the heavy 1963 impala. It seems like you have a rev happy engine that makes its power higher in the RPM range, but is even then restricted cause of the air flow capability of the heads.

As stated above your clutch needs to be adjusted or you may have a burnt up clutch from the high revving starts.

Easiest way to solve the temp problem is going with an aluminum radiator. Also need to look to see if your lower radiator hose is restricted by the sway bar. It takes a special radiator hose and some attention to detail when installing or this hose sits on the sway bar and may actually be getting compressed by it a little.

Previous owners are notorious (in my experience) for making all kinds of errors (both in concept and installation) as they modify their cars. Sorting them out is torture. You seem to be in that category.

My recommend PROCESS to try and sort things out is to educate yourself on how GM built the car. You'll need the '61 Shop Manual, the 63 Supplement Shop manual, and the 63 Assembly manual at a minimum. If you look you should be able to find all but the Assembly manual on-line somewhere for free. Pay fo the Assembly manual; it's worth it.

Here is a source of some valuable info (1st page is blank, scroll down):

https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/doc...-Chevrolet.pdf

Slow down and FIND OUT WHAT YOU HAVE (what's OEM? What's modified? if modified, to what?) before spending money on crap shoots.

A few examples:

What engine for sure? Where is it's 'power band'? One won't get much response from a wide ratio transmission 1st gear with a 2.73 rear and an engine with a power band in the higher rpm range. Get the 'numbers' and find out what you have.

What heads for sure? 283 heads? That's the only sb from 57. Get the numbers and find out what you have. I'll stop repeating that.

What transmission? Muncie? Borg Warner? Saginaw (didn't come with full size 63 but have seen them installed)?

What rear? 2.73 not available in 63.

The Edelbrock carb (and manifold) should work fine if they are correct for the engine, installed and tuned properly.

What are the tune specs for your modified engine? Timing impacts temps. Don't assume the temp issue is the radiator (don't assume it is NOT either). When does it run hot? At idle? Cruising?

From the pic, it looks like you have a vacuum line from the front of the carb to the power brakes (?). It may be connected to the pcv port, or the manifold vacuum line. Neither is correct. There is a brake vacuum port on the back of the carb for the brakes (I'm guessing you have some variation of the 1400 series carb; it's quite common). What is your pcv configuration?

There is a lot more to discover.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete

Well thanks Pete now my head hurts and I’m frightened, and so is my wallet. My mechanical ability falls well short of what you’re recommending. I live in Detroit, any idea who I could take this to who could decipher what you’re saying?


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After talking to the gentlemen who redid the top end he clarified that the heads are double heads, one from a 65 and one from a 67.


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No real surprise, but power comes from the heads.

When your car was new you would have been on the cover of every car mag if you could get 500 horse out of a 327 SBC. Today; thanks to millions and millions of dollars that Chevrolet spent on redesigning the SBC for reduced emissions, any one can bolt on a modern head and make 500 horse.

If you want to keep the old school double hump fuelie head then you are limited to the power it made back in the sixties. (so with a more modern, or shall we say aggressive cam) you can make 350 horse with those heads. That is more power than the car had originally with a small block, but far shy of a small blocks full potential.

I would look to a crate engine (400 or 383) rather than even getting my hands dirty to see what you have, and what it would take to bring your power levels up to modern standards. In 1967 if you wanted big power you yanked the SBC and dropped in a 427 (the biggest engine available at the time). Today we are talking installing a 496 BBC because a 427 is too small to justify the costs (a bang for the buck thing).

I say buy a crate motor not because I used to be an engine builder, but as a former engine builder I can tell you that you can buy a compete motor today for less money than I used to spend to buy the parts in boxes to build one.

Big Dave

I can't help with a recommendation.

But, it does not take 'mechanical ability' to ID parts. One just needs to know what to look for.

The engine for example:

One place to look for info is on the engine block pad just under the cylinder head by the #2 plug. There may be a series of letters and numbers stamped on it. I've attached a pic of the one from the engine that was installed on my '63 when I bought it. It is T0425HCH. From a site I discovered on line that came out to be a 327 275hp engine with a Holley carb and mated to a power glide transmission from a 1967 Chevy (I'll skip the date and plant info). The seller told me the engine was form a 67 Chevy but I verified that prior to purchase.

Look on your engine for those letters/numbers. Take a pic. What is it?

I do not know of any short cuts. Someone made of money can afford the risks; normal folks can not.

Again just trying to be helpful.

Pete

Attached Thumbnails

 

I agree with Dave.

When I was faced with deciding what to 'do' about the 'Frankenmotor' my current '63 had when I bought it, I quickly took the low risk (but known cost) alternative of a new crate motor (a '383' sbc built for low end torque). VERY satisfied.

But, I did my homework and identified what I had. After ID was when I made my 'judgements'. I followed that process for virtually ever decision I made for my car. Mostly I 'restored' to OEM. I did upgrade somethings.

Pete

I will likely get there one day, dropping in a crate 383. But for now I have a freshly built motor in my weekend cruiser, just need to get it running correctly!


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It can be done. First order of business is ignition timing. Do you own a timing light?

Big Fave

Yep, full tune up. Timing, idle speed, vacuum, point gap, mixture... do it all. What Edlebrock? 1405, 1406?

Ok well!

I just hit the mother load of all deals. I just picked up this brand new never ran after build 383 stroker. It’s vortec block and heads, weiland intake and Holley carb (part numbers unknown), eagle lower end and pretty aggressive cam (I believe he said 498/502 Deg lift).

ALONG WITH a brand new never used after build 700r4 trans for ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS FLAT!


Now the guy claims it’s over 500hp but idk if i boy that, but it’s a hell of a deal either way.


But now the rest of the pieces I need, a floor shifter (any stock or period correct looking ones out there?)

Need to shorten my drive shaft but my biggest question mark is my rear end. I still have to determine which gears I have, but will my rear end even hold up? Is a Posi going to be enough or do I need to consider a new rear end all together.

I’m very new and I apologize if I’m all over the place, I’ve always wanted a project to wrench on and learn on so I’m really excited about all of this and appreciate everyone’s help and feedback as I go


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Tires will be your weakest link. They will spin up until they suddenly get a grip; then say good-by to your rear end if it isn't ready to receive a lot of torque.

1947-'64 used a Chevrolet drop out rear end (Salisbury style). They were designed to survive behind a 80 horsepower 207 cubic inch Stove Bolt six cylinder (it was last produced by Chevy as a 140 horse power 235 used in cars but there was a larger 261 cube 148 horse truck engine variant that racers loved). The Stove Bolt six was in continuous production for 70 years, the SBC was only made for 48 years.

As you can see the rear end will not hold modern engine power without breaking. So it will need to be replaced at some time in the future. I would put the motor you bought on a test stand to verify it actually runs (dyno time is great for this and allows you to tune it to make it ready to drive.

Used transmissions are to me only a core. I rebuild everyone I get. I do this to learn what I am rebuilding by examining what I find inside (the 700R4 changed parts inside almost every year it was made to increase it's strength; because they kept breaking under warranty).So I would rebuild it with new parts inside before I cut the drive shaft down to make it fit.

Another weak point you will encounter is your carrier bearing in the torque box at the middle of the X in your frame. As soon as you cut the drive shaft and apply more power it will fail, so replace it with a Heavy Duty one while it is apart. Finding one is an issue as they are all made over seas (usually India or Pakistan) and are of low quality. So rely upon CURRENT recommendations for a good one that will work.

As to your floor shifter are we talking Console or open? Big difference in available parts. The stock floor console shipped with a four speed or a two speed PowerGlide). The PG having only two speeds has to have all new linkage fabricated or purchased to find all four gears. There are cover lens that change the two speed to a modern lay out as well. Just have to look for the kits.

Finally consider a cam change now before the one in there wipes a lobe, or it drives you crazy with lack of manifold vacuum for your almost power brakes. Remember going smaller on the power booster diaphragm only offers less power assist. People with big cams and nine inch power boosters usually convert back to manual brakes or go with a vacuum pump to make them work.

Big Dave

The trans was freshly rebuilt and never used and I have the build sheet and part receipts so I think it’s safe

I definitely will have the engine dynod to see what I’m working with

Can you recommend a carrier bearing and rear end to look for?

And for floor shifter my car is currently a manual and if obviously like to use the same opening for ease, but don’t like the B&M shifter look I want something that looks “stock”


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You have graduated from weekend cruiser to race car with all the pluses and minuses.

Are you going to try and keep your A/C?

Your exhaust manifolds won't attach to the vortec heads. Headers and new exhaust are likely in your future.

That transmission will need a different mounting and the shifter hole will not be in the same location (interior mods?). Although you can keep your 4 speed and make a table with the auto trans (that would be the only use I'd have for it). AutoGear (a Syracuse NY company) sells many brand new versions of the Muncie 4 speed. Their M22W (a wide ratio version of the old 'rock crusher') will hold up much better than your existing trans. I'd be surprised is the total cost required to install that auto is not more than the cost of the AutoGear. But, check it out.

Here's a few links for some very detailed info on 1963 transmissions/bellhousings/ flywheels/shifters etc that you may find useful:

https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/s...rch/1/#2771816

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/articl...ansmissions-2/

https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/s...rch/1/#2621124



You will have to address the additional engine cooling.

Look at alternator install mods. OEM alternator attached to the exhaust manifold that you can't use.

Big Dave; what are your thoughts on the necessity of a one piece drive shaft? And the frame mods?

Will you have sufficient vacuum to operate the power brakes (as Big Dave noted)?

Hope all works out as you want it to.

Pete

Ok well dang, don’t really want a race car, just a juicy weekend cruiser. Probably will put a different cam in after proving the guys claims on the dyno.


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You don't need a big cam for a cruiser.

The way a cam works is determined by your choices.

Big numbers in duration allow for you to rev your race engine to ten grand That is why they make a ten grand tach). Race engines do this because torque is determined by engine displacement (which is restricted by costs or rules depending upon what you are bring to the race track).That magic horsepower that is idolized on the dyno (that NASCAR used to paint on the hoods) is created by more and more power strokes per minute (RPM). This goes back to the nature of a four stroke engine. Only the Power Stroke (when the spark plug fires) counts. Duration means you have your valve off the seat for a longer period of time to allow the air your motor needs to get from the outside to inside the combustion chamber. Engines with their valves off the seat make no power at all on the street. You have to go to the track to wind them up to make power.

Lift allows the intake to breath better. The more lift the cam has the better for a race car. I custom grind my cams to have nearly twice the lift of what you see in the catalog. Great for building a sleeper that shocks people with what I can do with a car, but very hard on the valve train. I replace my valve springs when I change the oil. They are worn out by 4,000 miles of abuse. I have parts in my valve train that doubles or triples the size of the stock part (stock push rod for a BBC is 3/8th inch I run 3/4 inch push rods with ARP rocker studs and chromemoly Rocker Arms).

The final insult is as you add lift to the cam it gets pencil thin. This means that it is ground on a billet steel core to make up for it's reduced size, but when you are running one inch of valve lift you need to also machine the cam tunnel in the block to get more room for those taller cam lobes to fit in the engine. Most people do not think of this. All they want is the "sound" of their favorite race car.

Final issue with cams is the LSA (lobe separation angle) Smaller number such as 106 the more horse power you get on the dyno or race track. Open up the angle to 114 to 118 degrees and you can hide the sound of a big cam and still have power brakes because widening the LSA reduces overlap (the time when both valves are hanging open) . EFI cars require a wide LSA because EFI chokes if it sees a lot of variation in the manifold vacuum. Those 700 horsepower LS7 Camaros have a lot of duration on the exhaust and a wide LSA to idle at 600 RPM. This keeps their EFI computer happy and to run power brakes.

Will Close with the idea of selling your 700R4 and buying a gear vendor. It can go into the area where you are shortening the drive shaft and allow the two piece drive shaft to bend as intended.

Like every modification you make to stock you have to engineer a solution to the problem you create by modifying the car. A one piece drive shaft needs the torque box hogged out for more room, and as a result the frame has to be reinforced with more steel welded in terms of plating and gussets.

Big Dave

Thanks for all that awesome info Dave!

Can you recommend an automatic overdrive trans that will fit well for my use?


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The 200R4 (a Buick motors division tranny sold to Chevrolet for use in their police cars) is the same length (front to back) as the Saginaw three speed, Borg Warner 4 speed and the Muncie four speed as well as the PowerGlide. Since the TH350 was designed to replace the PG it is the same length as well.

Replacing the 700R4 with a 200R4 saves you having to cut down the drive shaft, but you have to rebuild it to increase it's torque rating with a 383 SBC. Nothing winds me up faster than people talking about horsepower with regards to strength. Torque is what breaks parts not horsepower. GM specifies a torque rating in foot pounds not horsepower for all of their transmissions. The bigger the number the stronger it is, but usually this also means the bigger it is physically.

Big Dave

For a stock look with your shifter you have some big issues to overcome. All 63 impalas with bucket seats and a center console with automatic transmission used a shifter that actually bolted to the transmission and the factory center console was made to hug the floor. You can't fit most cable style aftermarket shifters under the console. Shiftworks is the only company I have found that makes an automatic cable shifter that will fit and look factory. Automatic floor shifters were not available without the center console. Myself personally I like to row through gears and like the added control you can gain by downshifting to slow down into a turn for street driving, so my 63 is getting a richmond 5 speed as it doesn't require the major floor modifications top loader 5 speeds do.

They make a cross member for installing a 700R4, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Depending on what you are doing with ride height you may be able to change over to a 1 piece drive shaft without the center carrier bearing. Some people with lowered cars can do this by taking advantage of the new lower angle and the longer 700R4 transmission. Again I am personally not a fan of lowering the cars even though if springs have not been replaced since new the car is already sitting a couple inches lower. I've also heard of people going 1 piece drive shaft by doing chassis modifications, but I hate the idea of cutting on a perfectly good X-frame chassis.

The stock rear ends have held up behind 425HP 409 engines, but a lot of that depends on the tires and how you plan to drive. If you put a trans brake in, it will come apart on a hard launch. You plan on running street slicks or actual slicks it is going to break. If you just run a good street tire and don't rev it up and do hard launches it will last quite a while. I would definitely swap to a posi or you'll be leaving single tire burnouts and that just doesn't look cool.

Engine I really have nothing to add to what has been said. I'm a Mark I "W" big block guy, so my engine install brings about all new issues.

On a side note when you pull out all your clutch linkage and bell housing let me know with a PM as I would be interested in some of those parts. They re-manufacture all the parts, but since I don't currently have any it would be a good place to start.

Thanks very much, I’m a little conflicted now on what to do with the trans. I really don’t want change the stock look of the interior trim, but for my purposes an automatic is perfect. I’ll never race it, I’ll never floor it off the line, nothing. I may put it on airbags at some point as well, so it will be lower but not slammed to the ground. If I go automatic i need to pick one that will let me put a floor shifter through the current opening using the current trim or I’ll just rebuild mine to handle what’s coming. If i do take it out I will definitely let you know.


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I'm old and on the down hill slide, but I have learned a few things in the past half century of working on cars. That is, it isn't cheap. Don't buy two parts when you need only one. It is already too expensive to waste money on spares that you can not sell them later for what you paid for them.

If you do not know how to build an automatic transmission, you can buy a book and read what you need to know. If you don't know how to build an engine you can buy a book on blueprinting a motor and you will know the same things I do as far as assembly goes. The other school of knowledge an engine builder has is knowing what parts work in combination with each other (that comes from experience and can not be covered in a book because there are too many combinations). So long as I am alive I will share what I have learned (but most try a combination that won't work first based upon advertising and following a friend's advice before asking for help to get their new widget to do as advertised). Same goes for rear ends, every man woman and child will tell you you can not live without a nine inch. this is because they bought a nine inch and don't want to admit they made a mistake following the herd. I will tell you there are alternatives to a nine inch that will cost the same, weighs less and will not steal horsepower due to excessive friction (please note even Ford stopped using the nine inch decades ago except under mom's SUV to play soccer mom).

I recommend a series of books written by a degreed engineer from England that used to work for Chrysler before getting a job as a writer for all of the car magazines. His writing style is easy to understand. It is factual and well illustrated. He covers blueprinting, head porting cam selection, parts combinations that are known to work, and power train selection. Because he is former autocross racer he knows how to build a car for turning and driving upon a roadway (most American car mags only know how to drive at the drag strip which isn't how most roads are set up to get anywhere).

His name is David Vizard.

https://www.google.com/search?newwin...=1569870089200

Seriously I would have a lot more money in the bank and a bigger house now if I had followed this advise sixty years ago.

As far as tools go you can borrow most of what you need. It took me fifty years to acquire the three huge roll around tool chest full of tools (that makes it far too heavy to roll anywhere) that I collected over the years.

Big Dave