1962 Coupe 327 ressurection - Pawpaw's ride - Impala Tech
Restoration Corner Aimed at Originality

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post #1 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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1962 Coupe 327 ressurection - Pawpaw's ride

I just joined the site to hopefully document and learn some things. Sorry if this is long winded, but I want to share the complete story of the car.

My Great Uncle bought this car new, had it a year and then sold it to my Grandfather (Pawpaw). It was used as the family car and also driven by my Dad and my uncle. They say they gave the car hell, and I believe it. It was put in the garage sometime around 1980 due to a bad fuel pump.

Now, the good part. My Pawpaw doesn't like to get rid of things and the car sat covered in his garage, moved once in the late 1990's, and finally mid 2015, we decided it was time to get it back on the road.

We found out 3 months ago that he was diagnosed with colon cancer and will be starting chemo next week. He is 84 years old and has never had any sort of health problems.

We started out by replacing fuel pump, plugs, wires, water pump, hoses, belts, etc.

We also replaced all brake lines with stainless, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, and rubber hoses.

Replaced the power steering ram and hoses

We eventually got the motor to run, but it was obvious that we had some issues. Cylinders 4&8 were not firing. That's when we decided to go ahead and pull the motor and have it rebuilt.

Here is the car moved out of the garage under its own power before the motor was pulled.

This car is in amazing shape! No rust other than some very minor surface rust on the rear bumper and body.



327 and Aluminum Powerglide being removed


Pawpaw, Uncle Brian, Dad


Uncle Brian, Pawpaw, and Me



Motor is out

Last edited by Wjackson11x; 02-09-2016 at 02:00 PM.
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post #2 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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327 casting #3782870


Here is the closest pic I could find of what the car once looked like. Although my Pawpaw's has a white top


Last edited by Wjackson11x; 02-09-2016 at 01:52 PM.
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post #3 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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This is a matching #'s car and has never had anything done to the motor or transmission. We are having the motor rebuilt with a mild cam. I dropped the motor off yesterday. I am taking the transmission today to have it rebuilt. Our goal is to get it driveable as soon as possible, considering my Pawpaw's health. We want him to be able to drive it this summer to our family reuinion.

Last edited by Wjackson11x; 02-09-2016 at 01:51 PM.
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post #4 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 09:23 AM
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Looks good.

That's a 327 you have there.

One of the best engines ever made in my opinion.

Keep us posted on it.

Bill

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post #5 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 10:24 AM
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Wes, sent you a PM

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post #6 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Just heard back from the motor builder. He has the motor torn apart. A couple of the studs had pulled out of the heads, causing some minor damage. Obviously the cylinder walls are in bad shape. Overall the motor was in really good condition. I will walk over after lunch and snap some pics. The nice part about him being less than 100 yds from our office

I dropped the trans off about an 30 mins ago and they will be starting on it this week.

Here are a few more pics of the car



Rear axle








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post #7 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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VIN# on driver side door

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post #8 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 11:22 AM
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Welcome, Wes! Awesome car and I'll keep your Pawpaw in our prayers! Good luck and thanks for the pictures.

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post #9 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 11:52 AM
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Nice original car!

Because it has been sitting so long, I recommend you add replacing the gas tank, sender, and fuel line to your to do list. Those are not expensive and eliminate some possible issues down the road that are sometimes hard to diagnose.
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post #10 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjackson11x View Post
This is a matching #'s car and has never had anything done to the motor or transmission. We are having the motor rebuilt with a mild cam. I dropped the motor off yesterday. I am taking the transmission to day to have it rebuilt. Our goal is to get it driveable as soon as possible, considering my Pawpaw's health. We want him to be able to drive it this summer to our family reuinion.
Replace the cam and lifters (do both) if you need to. 'Upgrading' the the cam to increase power may not do much unless you also address the carb, intake, heads, and exhaust. If you did all that, then the PowerGlide is going to 'bog' you down.

Personally, if you intend to keep the car 'original', I'd rebuild the engine to OEM specs as much as possible.

Enjoy!
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post #11 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Denis- thank you for that. My Pawpaw is the greatest man that I have ever known!

Pete- we will be replacing all of the fuel system in the car, no telling what the inside of the tank looks like. As far as the motor rebuild, it will be getting a mild cam and we will be putting long tube ceramic coated headers on it, along with a higher stall converter. Crank is in good shape and will get polished. Carb will be rebuilt (4 barrel Rochester). The car will kept mostly original for now. Not sure what will happen in the future as far as suspension, wheels, A/c, steering, etc. Interior will be reupholstered to original colors.

I will post updates on everything along with pictures as we get everything back in the car. We still need clean up the engine bay/firewall, remove and clean the trans crossmember, and replace body mounts.

Any idea on the best place to get bodymounts? should we put in poly body/motor/trans mounts or go back with rubber mounts?

Here is a video of it running after sitting for 36 years
https://youtu.be/B5X9pYGbgdc

Last edited by Wjackson11x; 02-09-2016 at 02:28 PM.
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post #12 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 08:27 PM
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Hope your grandpa comes out good. I bet he would love to drive that car again. I don't remember seeing too many cars that color back then but it does look good. Prayers sent via airmail for the Gramps.
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post #13 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 10:15 PM
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Wonderful survivor, just like your Dad.

I always use rubber body and engine/trans mounts. The urethane can be a bit jarring. I use urethane suspension bushings for handling.

The headers on these cars can be a pain. I have Hedman's on my '62 and needed to "tweak" them to fit better. I always buy raw headers and have them ceramic coated AFTER I fit them to the car. The shorty's may actually be a better choice and let the exhaust shop fab the connecting pipe.

I hope you don't have plans to paint the car. They are only original survivors once and that paint looks very good yet with some "character" added.

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post #14 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the kind words and prayers for my Grandfather. He WILL drive this car again, and very soon I hope.

Here are a couple of more pics of the torn down motor. It is being sent to the machine shop today to have the heads and block checked/worked.

block




block numbers
Flint July2
S= 1962 327 Powerglide
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post #15 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 09:16 AM
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Nice looking car. Reminds me a lot of my '62 when I first bought it in February of '69.

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post #16 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 09:17 AM
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If the machine shop wants to deck the block, have them program the machine to STOP before it removes that stamp. They can do it if they want to. That stamp is worth a LOT of value to the car.

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post #17 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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The machine shop knows to keep all numbers.

Question- How would one know what motor originally came in the car? We know for a fact that this is the original motor, but I'm curious how one would find out if you didn't know. For instance, how would you know if the original motor was a 250hp or 300hp 327?

We are also thinking about putting a set of double hump heads on it. The machine shop has a set that he is willing to sell. We would obviously keep the original heads, just so we had the originals. Not really worried about ever having to sell the car. The plan is to keep it in the family
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post #18 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 10:31 AM
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Unfortunately the factory didn't mark the partial VIN on base engines until 1967 so there is no way to determine if this was a born with other than the date codes. The date codes should be around ten days of the build date.

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post #19 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjackson11x View Post
The machine shop knows to keep all numbers.

Question- How would one know what motor originally came in the car? We know for a fact that this is the original motor, but I'm curious how one would find out if you didn't know. For instance, how would you know if the original motor was a 250hp or 300hp 327?

We are also thinking about putting a set of double hump heads on it. The machine shop has a set that he is willing to sell. We would obviously keep the original heads, just so we had the originals. Not really worried about ever having to sell the car. The plan is to keep it in the family
One can get a lot of hp out of a 327 but to do so requires 'upping' the power band to the high rpm range. You will have power at the flywheel but the power glide and your likely high ratio rear won't transmit that power to the rear wheels well. What your drive train will like is more low end torque. For street driving, more displacement (383 stroker built for low end torque) will make the car much more pleasant (and quicker) than a high revving 327.

Here's a link to some info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe9ke0rQlT8

Notice the difference (or lack of significant difference) in the dyno numbers between the headers and manifolds.

Today's heads flow much better than the old double humpers. Cost wise the double humpers are a poor choice unless 'originality' is important to you.

Not being critical, just trying to be helpful.
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post #20 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 02:02 PM
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I vote with either keeping your original heads or going with the double-hump heads. You will have to sink money into either set. The reason being is they have the correct "look" with NO accessory bolt holes at the end of the heads. Any heads newer than 1968 WILL have accessory bolt holes at the end of the heads. And IMO, this ruins the correct look of the 1962 327 engine.
Yes, the newer head MAY give you a few more horsepower, but who cares? You aren't racing the car, correct?
Please post the casting number from the double-hump heads. The last 3 numbers should be "461" or "462".
I just had a set completely rebuilt including new valves, valve seats, bowl cleanup and port matching to the intake manifold. I know I spent more money on my heads than I would have buying new heads, but I did not care --> my 327 runs AND looks GREAT!
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post #21 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjackson11x View Post
The machine shop knows to keep all numbers.

Question- How would one know what motor originally came in the car? We know for a fact that this is the original motor, but I'm curious how one would find out if you didn't know. For instance, how would you know if the original motor was a 250hp or 300hp 327?

We are also thinking about putting a set of double hump heads on it. The machine shop has a set that he is willing to sell. We would obviously keep the original heads, just so we had the originals. Not really worried about ever having to sell the car. The plan is to keep it in the family
You answered your own question. The double hump heads didn't come on the 250 hp engine, so with single hump heads it is a 250 hp.

Some things to think about...there isn't enough zink in modern oils to properly lube the old flat tappet cams anymore. You need to add that with ZDDP, or special oils that have high zinc and they get spendy. Without the zinc, cam failure is almost eminent.

Instead of a high lift cam, I suggest going with a roller cam conversion. It is more expensive but the profiles can provide more torque with a smooth idle, eliminating any need for a stall converter, which will save a little money in itself. The roller cams/followers don't need the zinc, so no worries if the wrong oil is put in without the additive and there's no way to detect this upgrade from the outside. You can still get a profile that provides a little rumpity-rump, if that's what you're after too...

In my experience stall converters on the street don't always work very well, especially with high gear ratios. If the rpm is below their designated lock up cruising at 30-40 mph, they can slip constantly and cause the trans to run hot.

'62 Impala SS 409 TH350
'66 Chevelle SS 496 M20
'70 Chevelle SS 396 M20
'67 Camaro ss/rs 350 PG
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'54 Chev 210 2 door
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post #22 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 08:09 PM
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Here is my advice: Do you homework on the cam. Call cam companies and talk to your engine builder. And don't buy a cam for the idle. Buy one that fits your combination. Roller cams are a good upgrade, but you can still run flat-tappets with the right oil, which is not hard to find. And I'm sure the car won't be driven daily, so an oil change with special oil every 1-1.5 years won't break the bank. FWIW, i used this cam: CompCams XE256H-10.
Exhaust: I recommend 2Ĺ" ram horn exhaust manifolds.

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post #23 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-12-2016, 09:47 AM
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Dennis is offering very good advise.

The 327 was replaced by the 350 in 1968 in full size cars because the days of screaming down the strip with 4.11 gears had long passed. People wanted a larger motor to move a larger car. This is why the 350 was augmented with the introduction of the 400 cubic inch small block Chevy in 1970.

If you could find one (they were sucked up and used up by racers over the decades so they are rare today) the SBC 400 is a perfect motor for your grand father's car. It offers lots of torque to move the car but is as docile as your 327 as far as being a pleasure to drive on the street. It didn't make much in terms of horsepower in stock trim as it was designed to be a smog era motor that runs on lead free gas (something your 327 isn't capable of doing without retarding your ignition costing you power). But with a head and cam swap and the addition of a four barrel (they were all two barrel from the factory) it can easily make 400 to 500 horsepower.

If you are not going to increase the displacement to obtain more torque (say by dropping a SBC's 400 crank into your 327 to turn it into a 383) you are going to have to spin it higher in RPM to enjoy the power potential. In the sixties they made ten grand tachometers because the 283 was bouncing off the 10K tach's peg when raced. The 327 could also spin that high but it's quarter inch longer stroke wasn't as happy at that RPM and often came apart (I scattered a few myself). The 350 added another quarter inch of stroke and the 400 added a half inch longer stroke to the 327's crank throw added to a much larger bore (the difference between the 4.030 inch bore 383 and the 4.125 bore of the 400).

Comp Cams sells a hydraulic flat tappet cams that mimics the exhaust note sound of all of Chevy's hot cams sold over the service counter. You can buy a 302 Z/28 cam that used the old Duntov 30/30 solid cam originally, or an LT-1 370 horse 350 Corvette solid lifter cam, or the hydraulic lifter L-79 350 horse 327 cam from the Chevelle and Chevy II. All three of these hydraulic flat tappet Comp Cams use more modern cam lobe designs to offer more lift with less duration than the originals did. Their lopey idle sounds the same as the original service cams because they add the duration on the exhaust side only; so that there isn't as adverse an effect on the engines vacuum.

Lunati and Crane sell similar cams with retro fit hydraulic rollers that offer even more power potential as a roller lobe has a lot more area under the curve than a flat tappet because they can use a more aggressive ramp to accelerate the valve open than you can accomplish with a flat tappet using a Chevy diameter lifter.

Heads make the power in a motor. Heads have become computer designed to improve power (actually they were designed to reduce emissions but a more complete combustion also makes more power). In the early sixties the heads and intakes were designed to lower production costs by making it easier to cast as the highest priority and horse power an after thought. Even the fuelie heads (Camel hump) are just a larger port volume made in the image of the standard head with bigger valves.

The Fuelie head can not compare to the Vortec head used on a 1996-2004 Chevy pick-up. The Vortec head flows more and burns the gas better due to an improved heart shaped combustion chamber that Chevy spent a million and a half dollars over six years developing. The aftermarket took the final design criteria developed by GM's engineers and cast it in aluminum to keep from being sued by GM.

When painted orange with the front bolt holes in the head filled with a bolt that has been ground off it can pass for a stock head. Some people go so far as to take a pair of AFR 190 heads and having the end milled to look like a fuelie head.



Big Dave

Last edited by Big Dave; 02-12-2016 at 11:43 AM. Reason: gooder English Gramar
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post #24 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-12-2016, 10:07 AM
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Great story and a great car. Really cool to see the pictures of y'all and PawPaw getting that engine out of there.
that body looks straight enough that I vote for not painting it either! The patina and character marks are great! That's history right there.

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post #25 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-12-2016, 10:09 AM
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I agree with Big Dave.

Here's a link to just about all the info one might need to consider when building a sbc (substitute 'car' for 'truck' for your situation):

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh.../post/new/#NEW

You may not be interested and it is a lot of reading. However, it is VERY educational and hopefully helpful. If your are interested, taking the time to read it all will be of benefit. Putting parts together in search of more hp often does not yield the desired driving results.

I'm not pushing the 383 option because if it were my car I would likely just keep it original and rebuild the 327 to OEM spec. But, if the goal is to upgrade the engine, the 383 is one very good alternative.
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